Canterbury bucking industry trends

[Prairie Bettor]

Originally Posted by Oracle

With the perceived troubles in Illinois and Iowa, Canterbury Park should be looking strong for the next several years.

Always love betting Canterbury Park. Try to attend once or twice a year, down from nearly every racing day in the Downs era.

Now at Prairie most days, and not sure why people are saying racing is in trouble. They have a contract through 2019. Any end to racing would have to be through legislation, which will be a hard sell.

Illinois, ya that looks bad.

Unfortunately, in the long run, 2022 will be Canterbury's trouble time if the Mystic Lake deal isn't renewed.

[chadk66]

Canterbury got a 75 million dollar kick from the Mystic Lakes Casino for purse enhancement in exchange for not trying to get slot machines via the legislature. It was extremely close to a done deal so the tribe jumped in and shelled out the cash. Whe nthe ten years is up, if the tribe doesn't kick in the cash again, I'd say it's highly probable the track will have it's own slots. I think that amount of money is here to stay. But they haven't forgotten about the horse end of things. It helps that the owners are horse people. The atmosphere is great and the there is an ever growing population of large bettors. back in the late 80's and early 90's I trained for a guy that bet $700-800 per race. It was ridiculous. But that's all he does is bet for a living.

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by chadk66

When the ten years is up, if the tribe doesn't kick in the cash again, I'd say it's highly probable the track will have it's own slots. I think that amount of money is here to stay.

Why do you think the track will have slots if the tribe doesn't kick in the money? While there was support for slots the last time they were pushing, it never really got that close to them getting it.

[Clocker]

As said here, the track is doing a very good job for horsemen, for families, and increasingly for big bettors. I am in the minority, although I don't know how small a minority. I live in the Twin City metro area. I handicap and bet 4-5 cards a week, and I have not been to Canterbury in several years.

The big issue is that as a Minnesota resident, I am barred by state law from betting Canterbury through my ADW. If I could bet, I would probably go to the track once or twice a week and bet on line the other days. Even that would be less than ideal, because to truly follow one track, I would prefer to be there every day. I find that highly impractical and annoying due to the schedule of 2 nights followed by 2 day, and to the poor roads and traffic.

I also find it to be user-unfriendly to a regular small bettor due to high admission rates and very limited general admission seating. I just found the whole thing to be more trouble than it was worth to me. Grumpy old man rant off. It's not my cup of tea.

[Oracle]

For the casual fan who doesn't bet much and goes a few times per season, it's not that difficult to find free admission passes or attend on Thursday's when admission is only a dollar.

The regulars who do bet larger amounts should be getting free admission through the silver and gold MVP programs offered on-track.

I can't argue with you that playing from home is more convenient than going to the track, but it's understandable to me why that wouldn't be Canterbury's position. It's just economics. They do better when the money is bet on-track.

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by Clocker

I just found the whole thing to be more trouble than it was worth to me. Grumpy old man rant off. It's not my cup of tea.

Don't mean this the wrong way.... If admission and traffic is a showstopper, I doubt you're the type of person they are trying to attract.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Valento

Don't mean this the wrong way.... If admission and traffic is a showstopper, I doubt you're the type of person they are trying to attract.

As I said, those are minor annoyances. They could be tolerated if I could go to the track a couple days a week and bet on my ADW the others. I agree that the admission and other things are symptoms of the fact that everyday grinders are not the track's target demographic. They are a captive audience.

[AndyC]

So is Canterbury's bucking of industry trends a function of creative management or a result of the subsidies from slots? I think any track would buck trends if they could substantially raise purses through subsidies.

[Oracle]

Originally Posted by AndyC

So is Canterbury's bucking of industry trends a function of creative management or a result of the subsidies from slots? I think any track would buck trends if they could substantially raise purses through subsidies.

I believe the breeding industry in Minnesota needed Canterbury to get the agreement for the purse enhancements to prove that the business of horse racing was viable in Minnesota going forward. The state-bred foal numbers had dropped quite a bit but are now rebounding.

I think the trend-bucking has more to do with the good attendance numbers on-track compared to other like facilities, which, IMO, can be attributed to management.

[Prairie Bettor]

Originally Posted by AndyC

So is Canterbury's bucking of industry trends a function of creative management or a result of the subsidies from slots? I think any track would buck trends if they could substantially raise purses through subsidies.

Canterbury is supported by two casino types of revenue. They have a poker/card room on the first floor of the track. They also receive about $10 million a year from a Native American casino a couple miles down the road from the track.

One major difference in Canterbury and most other casino supported tracks is they charge admission. That allows them to do fan friendly things that the no admission tracks simply would be crazy to do.

IMO, they would be closed without the card club and casino subsidy. I'm not against the track but I do know reality, lol. The Sampson's made a good bet when they bought the track for pennies on the dollar. Worst case the land it and the barn area sits on is worth what they paid.

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by Valento

Why do you think the track will have slots if the tribe doesn't kick in the money? While there was support for slots the last time they were pushing, it never really got that close to them getting it.

They claimed there were enough votes in the legislature to get it done. That's why the tribe stepped in. Soon as they saw it was going to pass they panicked.

[chadk66]

yea the track would most likely close without the card room and casino subsidies. My brother and I bought a broodmare and a share in Kela so we could breed minnesota breds. We knew where the purses were going and the breed money alone was going to be very good. The whole industry is abuzz right now. Hope it keeps up. It should for many years I think. The track is doing a great job luring new customers.

[therussmeister]

Originally Posted by chadk66

They claimed there were enough votes in the legislature to get it done. That's why the tribe stepped in. Soon as they saw it was going to pass they panicked.

The Gov. Dayton suggested to Canterbury that they should try to make a deal with the casino, because Gov. Dayton said they weren't going to get slots in the foreseeable future.

I don't think Canterbury would have done the deal if they thought they had enough votes. A racino would have been much better than this deal.

This deal really pissed off the harness track people. (Running Aces)

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by therussmeister

The Gov. Dayton suggested to Canterbury that they should try to make a deal with the casino, because Gov. Dayton said they weren't going to get slots in the foreseeable future.

I don't think Canterbury would have done the deal if they thought they had enough votes. A racino would have been much better than this deal.

This deal really pissed off the harness track people. (Running Aces)

My brother is pretty tight with a couple local legislators. They said they were very confident it was going to pass regardless what Dayton says. That guy is out to lunch anyway. Your right they would do better with a racino. But the owners aren't greedy and why not take the sure thing. I think their line of thinking was if they could do the deal with the casino and get seven good years to re-establish the industry and create a climate at the races again they would have no problems getting a racino anytime they wanted when the deal with the casino ends. Who really lost was the state of MN because the racino was going to fund education from what I recall.

[Track Phantom]

I think it was 40/60 against getting a racino. It was closer than it had ever been but not a slam dunk.

There are two conversations at play here.

1) The track is doing things to lure fans. This has almost nothing to do with the subsidy they get from either the poker or Mystic Lake. This has to do with focus on organic growth. Basically, exposing their product to young people in hopes that many will convert to life long players. This, to my knowledge, is not being done in most places. Canterbury management deserves credit in this area.

2) The track would likely be in the same position as PRM and AP without the Mystic Lake deal (and the doors would be shut without the Poker revenue). This is a symptom of the industry as a whole. There aren't many (any?) tracks surviving without some sort of subsidy (short of the big players NYRA, So. Cal. OP, etc). Tracks that are considered 2nd tier without subsidy thriving and drawing fans?!? I'd like to see an example.