Ramon Dominguez. Best jockey ever?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Nothing ill-founded. Pull up 100 random Ramon rides from whatever year you consider his best. Now do the same for JDB. I guarantee you'll find more mistakes in the Ramon replays than the Bailey replays. But I appreciate your support for Ramon, and I'm not going to respond anymore as it will start to look like I'm bashing him. I'm not trying to do that, just pointing out the greatness of Bailey. I hope Ramon does extremely well in his new endeavors.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

Nothing ill-founded. Pull up 100 random Ramon rides from whatever year you consider his best. Now do the same for JDB. I guarantee you'll find more mistakes in the Ramon replays than the Bailey replays. But I appreciate your support for Ramon, and I'm not going to respond anymore as it will start to look like I'm bashing him. I'm not trying to do that, just pointing out the greatness of Bailey. I hope Ramon does extremely well in his new endeavors.

You're a gentlemen.

I compare this comparison to my love of 2 of my favorite wrestlers LOL: CM Punk and Macho Man Randy Savage. Each was awesome in their day.

I loved Jerry immensely and loved Ramon just as much and then more.

No knock on Jerry from me either. Both the best I have ever seen.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

Nothing ill-founded. Pull up 100 random Ramon rides from whatever year you consider his best. Now do the same for JDB. I guarantee you'll find more mistakes in the Ramon replays than the Bailey replays. But I appreciate your support for Ramon, and I'm not going to respond anymore as it will start to look like I'm bashing him. I'm not trying to do that, just pointing out the greatness of Bailey. I hope Ramon does extremely well in his new endeavors.

The math doesn't really support this. Ramon has 9,589 LESS lifetime rides than Bailey and only 908 less winners. Ramon is batting 23% lifetime, to put it in perspective, there's only one top 50 lifetime wins guy ahead of Ramon and that's Russell Baze at 24%.....and we know a lot of his winners were in 5 horse fields riding a Dorfer 3-5 shot, a lot of Ramon's wins were on major circuits in bigger fields.

Hard to imagine this guy made too many mistakes, riding at 23% and NOT doing it at Golden Gate in 5 horse fields is spectacular numerically, its incredibly special. Now when you say mistakes i'm assuming that these are races he SHOULD have won but didnt. Now, you can theoretically make a mistake on a horse and still win, but are we talking about mistakes that cost his mounts the win?

[MJC922]

Tough to compare jocks from a different era on stats. When you think back to the Cordero years, those guys in NY rode against hall of fame riders day in and day out, that NYRA colony in the 80's and 90's was as deep as it gets. The names read like a who's who. Guys like Mike Smith were only seen as being good in those days, only later on when the old guard was all gone is Smith considered to be one of the best in the sport. I don't know about Jerry's entire career but there was a period of time after Angel retired where he could absolutely do no wrong and it wasn't just for a year or two but for a very long time. Granted I haven't followed NYRA closely from 2000 on (or Ramon's career) but IMO it would be very tough to compare due to the competition. I mean who of note has been around NYRA since those Bailey years, Johnny V & Cornelio? A lot of it is who you ride against, no disrespect to top riders but for example Perry Ouzts looks magical where he rides in large part because the others aren't so good.

[Robert Fischer]

I hope this isn't too messy and can be appreciated by someone.

I've made a fair amount of posts on this site, so I searched "Dominguez" under my name and it brought up a lot of my thoughts on RD frozen in real-time.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Castellano - who has developed a feather-touch (a la Dominguez) saving horse at the top of stretch and getting the most out Pletcher favorites with strong tactical speed.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Interesting ride by Talamo on the fav.

He took the first turn like a cowboy (as opposed to a Ramon Dominguez type ride where he would have come over to the rail and then sit chilly and benefit from controlling the rail prior to the turn).

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Also, and it may be too subtle, but Flashback breaking a little sluggishly may have caused a little bit of urging and a bit of an unnecessary rush into the first turn. You can kind of ease up through the first turn with a tactical horse on the rail. -You make up ground by being inside without using horse. How many times have we seen Dominguez or someone play the first turn? ...

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

No excuse for losing that, and it still took strong handling from Dominguez on Overanalyze to beat him

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

whether it was Dominguez, or the layoff... He ran maybe the best race of his life

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

but with Horse and rider sitting tight (picture Dominguez when he knows he has secured rail position going to the 1st turn)...

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

the 7 ski holiday can get a piece in spite of her lack of a sustained move, she does have one small move, and quality for Dominguez to guide up.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

i liked how Lezcano rode that race with the DRINKSONTHEHOUSE.
He set behind the pace group, a lot like Dominguez would do. Ramon (at least for certain @ Saratoga, probably Belmont too) would have waited in the 2 path and possibly finished better, but Lezcano took the Belmont turn wider and still had enough horse.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Dominguez doesn't just get mesmerized and fall-in-line like some jocks would have, he sad F-this! and took it.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Dominguez out to a smooth start. didn't use him.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Haven't done serious capping yet, but what about Dominguez going to ride RULE in the Woodward?

Is that a negative for TRICKMEISTER? a positive for RULE? or just a change?

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Dominguez can help judge the pace in this sprint.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

nice ride by Dominguez on the .

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Dominguez gets 2nd chance pressing from outside today...

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Reminded a lot of STONECOLDSTEAMER yesterday. For some reason Dominguez didn't get the memo from Junior Alvarado that horses on the lead should be whipped into the rail , wrangled back and then whipped off their lead several jumps from the rail.

Dominguez rode him like a professional instead, and guided the horse to a WIN.
Like Night and Day.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

A guy like Castellano, who may be physical in both hadling of a horse and in-fighting with other horses/jockeys, will miss the whip more

than a say, a guy like Dominguez who typically is more finesse and speed oriented.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

You think Leparoux is going to come and eat Dominguez' bread in NY ??

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

These are obviously not a comprehensive list of jockey tendencies. There is a learning curve to analyzing these abilities. Just as we would debate Eli and Brady's specific abilities and characteristics, we do the same for Castellano and Dominguez. When a level of insight is attained the current and past performances of jockeys (seeing them race) can be critically analyzed. The next step is applying this "jockey physicality" to a FUTURE event.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

I will be shocked if Dominguez does not get much better stock to ride.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

pretty good to run down a classic Dominguez wire job.

Dominguez did his signature graded turf route winning wire-to-wire ride, and Get Stormy was plenty capable - not only in having the requisite virtues to pull off that trip, but even being favored by the public. Looked a little surprised (RD made no error, i'm emphasizing the surprisingly strong run by the winner) to see the grey blow by.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

physicality picks

is well meant gelding from the jump of his career... and is in shape and Dominguez (i know this isn't physicality but must include).

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

10- is coming into own for clement , but will be cheering home 5 as well. Dominguez can be tough on the lead, and this horse could get brave at good odds.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

dirt or turf Dominguez is king on the lead with a sound animal... he lets his horse run, yet keeps his steed relaxed... uses the track configurations to his advantage...and often conserves horse into the far turn while still maintaining his position of leader.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

He had a dream trip and a solid race but he wasn't of the stamina of the big 3 and Astrology.

Broke well, Dominguez eased him over prior to the turn, eased him out prior to the 2nd turn just off the pace(perfect spot to win at Pimlico) he actually ran well around the turn but once he changed leads he flattened out in the drive.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

looked like Dominguez stole the break on Strike A Deal, and Cornelio Velasquez(bet down fav Winchester) rode the shit out of my horse(5-2 Al Khali) who still got up.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Watch the turn- Dominguez on Super Saver eases into the final turn saving a ton of horse for a sure win, but Rose knows his rival from their days at Delaware and other tracks and Rose moves while Dominguez is "saving" horse and Rose has his horse brush Super Saver. Super Saver can't recover and never gets a chance to change leads until the shadow of the wire, if at all.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Dominguez DOMINATED. Usually in the right place, good judgement, even with occasional inner bias where you may have several jockeys gunning for a spot he controls those races.
He doesn't hinder as many horses as just about every jockey.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

in the 8th?

El Tamberito is proven rateable for Dominguez , probably stalking the rail trip hoping for a pace collapse.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Dominguez can slow things down on the turf. His race with Savannah Peach on 9/15/08 was one of my favorites. He exploited the fact that the gate is out of the chute, and then he called the other rider's bluff. Took a mediocre 6f horse out in 26.84 and 3/4ths in 1:18.90 for an easy romp over an 8.5furlong trip.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

There are very few jockeys who have any talent whatsoever at going wire to wire in a turf route. Maybe it is extremely difficult? Regardless it is rare to see the talent. Ramon Dominguez is the best in North America, possibly the world. He relaxes the horse, he controls the pace and he has enough finesse to give his horse every chance to be strong in the stretch.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

you see so many past performances where with Dominguez the horse won on a clear wire-to-wire lead for the first time in it's life, and today it has luzzi or garcia so it is such an easy bet against because Ramon Dominguez won the last race.

Originally Posted by pompano1 2008

whos the best jockey in new york

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Dominguez is pretty tough at the moment.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Or you see a horse that won free on the lead with Dominguez , and today you have a jockey change = you have to understand Dominguez may have won that last race. Sometimes you switch from a jockey with a loose reign to a tight-reign. You knew when Pletcher took Dominguez off of Sunriver and went to Gomez that sooner or later you would get the kind of ride we saw in the Canadian International. You know as much as you can about the Jockeys. Take a day or two at a certain track and put the video and the chart side by side. Keep watching the last 3-4 furlongs and refer to the chart to see what Jockeys are battling. What did they do? Certain things should start to stand out.

[aaron]

If I had to choose between the three top riders,I would probably choose Cordero.I feel he rode against the best riding colony NYRA ever had. He won Triple Crown races and some Breeders Cup races. He was the best rider at Saratoga year after year. He also did not ride for a lot of the top trainers of the era and was still dominant. His ride on Bold Forbes in the Belmont is considered one of the perfect rides of all time.
NYRA used to have a segment on their website with Cordero analyzing some of his rides. It was a treat to listen to.If you can find it the video,I highly recommend it.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by aaron

If I had to choose between the three top riders,I would probably choose Cordero.I feel he rode against the best riding colony NYRA ever had. He won Triple Crown races and some Breeders Cup races. He was the best rider at Saratoga year after year. He also did not ride for a lot of the top trainers of the era and was still dominant. His ride on Bold Forbes in the Belmont is considered one of the perfect rides of all time.
NYRA used to have a segment on their website with Cordero analyzing some of his rides. It was a treat to listen to.If you can find it the video,I highly recommend it.

My father told me, that when he briefly met Cordero (late 70s / early 80s?), he greeted Cordero with "Angel, You are the best."

I asked if that was his real opinion or if it was just something cool/nice to say, and he said that was his opinion.

I can't vouch that my father was correct.
I can't claim his opinion is 'infallible', but he had an above average eye for sports, and he loved horse racing. That's my story on a jock that was a bit before my time.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by aaron

In my opinion,the 3 best riders I have seen ride the NYRA circuit are Cordero,Bailey and Dominguez. It is hard to pick one over the other. I would probably rank Dominguez 3rd,because he didn't last as long as the other two.I thought before he got injured,he had the potential to be #1.

These are exactly my thoughts.

[iceknight]

I know this is a RamonD thread but here is a Jerry Bailey vs Gary Stevens faceoff! 1993 BCC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc9gjaQ_9vc