Cubs gave up 4 great prospects for Quintana

[olddaddy]

Originally Posted by Valuist

He will probably share 5th starter duties with Montgomery and Butler. But he does have post-season experience. Maybe he could be used situationally against a few RH hitters out of the bullpen.

Down 5 1/2 its real tough to carry a stiff RHed situational pitcher.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

All they have to do is catch the Brewers; that could happen in a couple of head-to-head series. That shouldn't be all that tough.

Are the Cardinals and the Pirates out of it?

[olddaddy]

Originally Posted by Valuist

The LOL is AT you, not with you. "Middle of the road starter"? What do you look at, wins? A metric that is more about your teammates than actual performance. In terms of pitcher WAR since the start of 2013, where does Quintana rank? SEVENTH. He trails only Kershaw, Scherzer, Sale, Kluber, Price and Lester. Some of the big names he's ahead of? Bumgarner, Greinke, Strasburg, Arrieta, Verlander, Wainwright and Hamels.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...lter=&players=

Yup wins means nothing and how some think the dodgers starters are a HUGE favorite over the cubbies, shows me how little some understand the game of baseball.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

You honestly wouldn't trade John Lackey for Alex Wood?

I was trying to figure out why I would make such a stupid statement. Then I realized I had not been clear. I was referring to the four Cub pitchers we had been discussing here, not the entire staff. I would not trade Lester, Arrieta, Quintana or Hendricks for any Dodger starter except Kershaw.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

Originally Posted by Valuist

The LOL is AT you, not with you. "Middle of the road starter"? What do you look at, wins? A metric that is more about your teammates than actual performance. In terms of pitcher WAR since the start of 2013, where does Quintana rank? SEVENTH. He trails only Kershaw, Scherzer, Sale, Kluber, Price and Lester. Some of the big names he's ahead of? Bumgarner, Greinke, Strasburg, Arrieta, Verlander, Wainwright and Hamels.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...lter=&players=

Thanks for proving how worthless those statistics are. There are literally dozens of pitchers below him on that chart who are better than Quintana this year.

Dozens!

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

Originally Posted by mostpost

I was trying to figure out why I would make such a stupid statement. Then I realized I had not been clear. I was referring to the four Cub pitchers we had been discussing here, not the entire staff. I would not trade Lester, Arrieta, Quintana or Hendricks for any Dodger starter except Kershaw.

Talk about a totally blind fan. But I guess there's nothing wrong with that. The Cub starters are pretty pathetic this year, and Quintana does not make them any better. The Cubs starters are 8th best in the NL -- which also makes them 8th worst.

But true to form, Quintana might pitch a half dozen good games the second half. Its the other 9 or 10 that will be terrible.

The Mets gave up a stud pitcher in Fullmer when they got Cespedes. But no matter how good Fullmer gets, the Mets made a great trade because without Cespedes they never win the pennant in 2015 nor get to the playoffs in 2016.

If the Cubs make the playoffs this year it will have nothing to do with the middle of the road pitcher they just picked up. It will have everything to do with the weak competition in their division.

The Brewers need two things to stay the course. Villar needs to regain 2016 form and Jimmy Nelson needs to stay the course.

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

As a betting man...I am willing to back Kershaw one more time. And, if I am Dave Roberts when facing Washington in the playoffs...I open with WOOD against Scherzer...and pitch Kershaw in the second game against Strasburg. Wood is having a better year than Kershaw up 'til now...and, being placed second might help in focusing Kershaw's "concentration" on the job at hand.

That is a helluva 1/2 punch.

[HoofedInTheChest]

Originally Posted by Jess Hawsen Arown

Thanks for proving how worthless those statistics are.

I'm all ears, enlighten us.

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by olddaddy

I dont know how long you have followed baseball in your city but in 1983 there was a loaded team whose record was 40-38 the game after the All Star break. They finished the season with 99 wins. This stuff happens.

This doesn't sound quite right? Wasn't that 1984 when they lost to San Diego? That was the year they acquired Rick Sutcliffe and he went on one of the amazing pitching runs in MLB history. I will have to check that out, but I think they were sub-500 in the years before and after.

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Are the Cardinals and the Pirates out of it?

Realistically, I think you have so say that they are. It is true that neither team is very far behind the Cubs. With the wild card teams so solid in the NL, teams really have to consider if they can win the division. Of the teams behind Milwaukee, I believe that the Cubs are the only team with a real shot. It would be foolish for either St. Louis or Pittsburgh to mortgage their futures by overpaying for talent given the reality of their situation.

[olddaddy]

Originally Posted by kingfin66

This doesn't sound quite right? Wasn't that 1984 when they lost to San Diego? That was the year they acquired Rick Sutcliffe and he went on one of the amazing pitching runs in MLB history. I will have to check that out, but I think they were sub-500 in the years before and after.

You are thinking about the wrong Chicago team.

[Valuist]

Originally Posted by Jess Hawsen Arown

Thanks for proving how worthless those statistics are. There are literally dozens of pitchers below him on that chart who are better than Quintana this year.

Dozens!

And how many of these "dozens superior" pitchers to Quintana were available?

And don't even mention Verlander. He's done.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

Originally Posted by HoofedInTheChest

I'm all ears, enlighten us.

You only had to read my next sentence. Then look at the list. Rather obvious.

Hope some of you played Quintana today in Draft Kings, today. I guessed he would be psyched for his first start. You can also expect a few more good efforts by the end of the season for this .500 pitcher.

[Valuist]

Originally Posted by Jess Hawsen Arown

You only had to read my next sentence. Then look at the list. Rather obvious.

Hope some of you played Quintana today in Draft Kings, today. I guessed he would be psyched for his first start. You can also expect a few more good efforts by the end of the season for this .500 pitcher.

Pitchers that were available: Quintana, Gray, Verlander, Straily, probably Cueto and Samardijza. Quintana, with team control over the contract, is preferred over any of those guys. Before this year, I would've said Cueto, but he's had a velocity drop. Verlander had a great year last year but has regressed to his 2014-15 form. Sonny Gray has had some shoulder issues.

You refer to him as "a .500 pitcher". Do you really use win/loss as a major criteria for judging starting pitchers? I didn't think anyone did that anymore. Are you aware Quintana had been pitching for a terrible team the past few years? Everyone knows W/L is too reliant on run support and bullpen.

I didn't play him on Draft Kings although I did bet the Cubs at minus 138 today. DK is the kiddy pool.

[headhawg]

Originally Posted by Valuist

You refer to him as "a .500 pitcher". Do you really use win/loss as a major criteria for judging starting pitchers? I didn't think anyone did that anymore. Are you aware Quintana had been pitching for a terrible team the past few years? Everyone knows W/L is too reliant on run support and bullpen.

This. +1. I wish I could play poker with people here who think they know what they're talking about.