The Greatest of All Time - Bob Baffert

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1491910227528146947”

This is damning:
EPO has become increasingly attractive to trainers because of the blood-boosting impact from injecting even small amounts of the drug – a technique called micro-dosing, experts told The Post.

The compound then quickly disappears from a horse’s system – usually within a day or two – yet the benefit of increased stamina from more oxygen-rich blood can last for four or five weeks.

This would explain three things:
1) Why his horses continually re-rally and fail to tire as normal horses might.
2) Why his horses don't test positive.
3) How he had a bunch of horses die suddenly.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

This is damning:
EPO has become increasingly attractive to trainers because of the blood-boosting impact from injecting even small amounts of the drug – a technique called micro-dosing, experts told The Post.

The compound then quickly disappears from a horse’s system – usually within a day or two – yet the benefit of increased stamina from more oxygen-rich blood can last for four or five weeks.

This would explain three things:
1) Why his horses continually re-rally and fail to tire as normal horses might.
2) Why his horses don't test positive.
3) How he had a bunch of horses die suddenly.

The timing of this article is strange with the necropsy coming out tomorrow. Maybe they know something but maybe they don't. It's kinda lite on facts but I absolutely believe Baffert cheats and there a mountain of circumstantial evidence along with plenty of positives and horse deaths

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

The timing of this article is strange with the necropsy coming out tomorrow. Maybe they know something but maybe they don't. It's kinda lite on facts but I absolutely believe Baffert cheats and there a mountain of circumstantial evidence along with plenty of positives and horse deaths

Actually, when you think about it, the only thing missing is absolute fact. Otherwise, all of the circumstantial evidence leads to this being what Baffert has/is doing. The way his horses run is just unnatural. Oddly, the people that know this are the seasoned handicappers. You have to have studied this sport for a long time to really understand it. If you're an outsider, all of the frivolous claims make sense (he gets the best horses, great trainer, on and on).

[the little guy]

You guys are now using irresponsible hit pieces in the NY Post to back up your baseless claims?

I would say the bottom has been hit but I've been around here long enough to know that probably isn't true.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by the little guy

It's so good to see politics still aren't allowed in the racing section.

I stopped paying attention to this thread long ago.

My bad.

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by the little guy

You guys are now using irresponsible hit pieces in the NY Post to back up your baseless claims?

I would say the bottom has been hit but I've been around here long enough to know that probably isn't true.

Either you think the man is clean and winning without taking an edge or that he is using PED's to get his results. If you choose to believe he is winning fairly, that is fine but the circumstantial evidence doesn't support that. If you think he is taking an edge, it can be argued that he fired a kill shot into the very sport you make a living from by tainting and cheapening the Kentucky Derby and the Triple Crown.

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

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Last edited by Andy Asaro; 02-11-2022 at 12:58 PM.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

Actually, when you think about it, the only thing missing is absolute fact. Otherwise, all of the circumstantial evidence leads to this being what Baffert has/is doing. The way his horses run is just unnatural. Oddly, the people that know this are the seasoned handicappers. You have to have studied this sport for a long time to really understand it. If you're an outsider, all of the frivolous claims make sense (he gets the best horses, great trainer, on and on).

When I published my critical editorial about Baffert, which was right after Authentic won the Derby (Baffert had 5 more positives after I wrote it), the only thing I mentioned that wasn't based on facts was that I thought that his horses performed in a suspicious and unnatural manner, reminiscent of other athletes like Mark McGuire, who did things that weren't natural.

As we know, there are few horses that can run like Secretariat - Big Red was capable of running fast at every call and still finishing fast. Horses that can do that are rare. Baffert has had many horses that go fast and then rebreak at the eighth or sixteenth pole and draw off.

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by pandy

...his horses performed in a suspicious and unnatural manner, reminiscent of other athletes like Mark McGuire, who did things that weren't natural....

We all want empirical evidence before calling someone a cheater. But the inadequacies of the testing will not allow it. Even a necropsy usually won't find the drugs. Does that mean they are clean? That is up to you to decide. We're all handicappers. Handicapping is using shared data points to draw a hypothesis. It's no different in assessing the legitimacy of the results in question here. If you listed the top 5 to 10 things that are likely present when a trainer is using PED's (for example, consistent rebreaks, speed but fail to tire no matter the pace situation, abnormally high win percentage in all categories, move ups, previous infractions, multiple horses of a lifetime, similar excuses that point to someone else, admitting nefarious usage) then ask yourself how many of these does Baffert have.

I don't expect those that make their living from the game to say anything. They are required by their position to use discretion. So people that rail on TVG, or Andy, for not saying something are barking up the wrong tree. They can't and shouldn't. But those of us normal, everyday handicappers can be honest with what we see.

[Vinnie]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

We all want empirical evidence before calling someone a cheater. But the inadequacies of the testing will not allow it. Even a necropsy usually won't find the drugs. Does that mean they are clean? That is up to you to decide. We're all handicappers. Handicapping is using shared data points to draw a hypothesis. It's no different in assessing the legitimacy of the results in question here. If you listed the top 5 to 10 things that are likely present when a trainer is using PED's (for example, consistent rebreaks, speed but fail to tire no matter the pace situation, abnormally high win percentage in all categories, move ups, previous infractions, multiple horses of a lifetime, similar excuses that point to someone else, admitting nefarious usage) then ask yourself how many of these does Baffert have.

I don't expect those that make their living from the game to say anything. They are required by their position to use discretion. So people that rail on TVG, or Andy, for not saying something are barking up the wrong tree. They can't and shouldn't. But those of us normal, everyday handicappers can be honest with what we see.

Superb and succinct post.

[Elkchester Road]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

We all want empirical evidence before calling someone a cheater. But the inadequacies of the testing will not allow it. Even a necropsy usually won't find the drugs. Does that mean they are clean? That is up to you to decide. We're all handicappers. Handicapping is using shared data points to draw a hypothesis. It's no different in assessing the legitimacy of the results in question here. If you listed the top 5 to 10 things that are likely present when a trainer is using PED's (for example, consistent rebreaks, speed but fail to tire no matter the pace situation, abnormally high win percentage in all categories, move ups, previous infractions, multiple horses of a lifetime, similar excuses that point to someone else, admitting nefarious usage) then ask yourself how many of these does Baffert have.

I don't expect those that make their living from the game to say anything. They are required by their position to use discretion. So people that rail on TVG, or Andy, for not saying something are barking up the wrong tree. They can't and shouldn't. But those of us normal, everyday handicappers can be honest with what we see.

Track Phantom

[classhandicapper]

IMO, the best evidence of cheating is a horse moving up or down sharply and quickly on a trainer change to or from the trainer in question.

Very high profile horses like Life Is Good (picked up right where he left off and kept developing for Pletcher) and Maximum Security (took a step back from Servis to Baffert) argue against it (other than therapeutics), but he has had a lot of horses that can be reviewed and may have a few top 3yos that will switch barns shortly that we’ll be able to monitor.

[Al Gobbi]

Report: No Timeframe Yet On Stewards’ Decision In Medina Spirit Derby Case

The stewards' hearing in the 2021 Kentucky Derby drug positive took place on Feb. 14, but attorneys tell Horse Racing Nation they do not know when to expect a decision. As was widely reported, first-place finisher Medina Spirit was found to have an overage of the corticosteroid betamethasone in his system after the race, which was later confirmed on split sample. Trainer Bob Baffert's legal team asserts the substance came from the topical administration of a prescription cream.

https://paulickreport.com/news/the-b...it-derby-case/