Eric Garner death & Grand Jury decision

[FantasticDan]

I know there's been some discussion of this in the Missouri thread, but it deserves its own..

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[Tom]

I agree it was a bad call, but where in the Hell is the evidence that race played any role at all here? Answer - nowhere.

Is every damn encounter between a Black and White race-releated?
Or was this just an over-zealous cop who went too far?

So far, the media coverage, except at FOX, has been utter BS.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Tom

I agree it was a bad call, but where in the Hell is the evidence that race played any role at all here? Answer - nowhere.

Agree. Early evidence indicates cop was wrong and the jury decision was probably wrong.

Why is the title of the video "Black man KILLED..."? Prejudging equals prejudice.

[badcompany]

Even though Garner was a bum, the chokehold was out of line and the cop should've been charged with something.

Here's what I think happened. This is just an opinion from someone who knows Staten Island.

The cop is an Italian from Staten Island which is very Italian-American.

The jury was just protecting one of its own.

[PaceAdvantage]

Are any whites killed by black cops who are then cleared by a grand jury?

Just wondering.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Are any whites killed by black cops who are then cleared by a grand jury?

Just wondering.

A black cop who killed an unarmed white teen (high on drugs, attacked cop, deja vu) was not indicted by a grand jury in Mobile, Alabama.

Story

[Tom]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014...torched-video/

[ArlJim78]

It's too bad he resisted. Its too bad that cops are not trained better to defuse situations like this.
The use of force is often way over the top, like in this case.
I do not for a minute think this was racially motivated.
There are numerous other examples I can post that show police over use of force leading to death or severe injury against white folks. I don't want to though because frankly watching them makes me sick to my stomach, to see some random minor offense like underage drinking or loitering turn into a death scene because the law enforcement officers escalation of the events.
This is mainly about abuse of power.

I also do not believe that it was the choke hold that killed the man. You don't hear him say I can't breathe until they flip him over on to his stomach.
They always do that, slam a person to the ground, put force like a knee to the back and to the head, slamming the face on to the pavement, then shout over and over to put your hands behind your back. At that point a person is just trying to survive and breath and I don't think it's possible to put your hands behind your back. You're trying to keep from being crushed so your hands go to the pavement which they then view as resisting arrest.
If you're young, elderly, out of shape like some homeless, or overweight as in this case, those types of maneuvers can be deadly or impossible to make.

As a very large man myself, I can tell you that if I was slammed to the ground on my stomach with pressure to the back and on my head and with one arm held behind the back, that I'd probably suffocate. You can't draw a breath at that point, your insides are being crushed and your lungs cannot get air.

Then the most galling thing to me, with all those people standing around, the guy stops moving, they know he's injured or dead but do nothing! Everyone just stands around, nobody does a single thing to see if he needs medical attention. IT makes me sick. Shouldn't there be charges for not aiding a citizen in distress? I don't get why everyone stands around looking at what appears to be a now lifeless body. Isn't that something that public service officers are trained to do, to help people needing medical attention?
The only action I saw when the man appears to go limp was the one guy telling people to move back, especially the guy filming, so its clear where the priorities are.

Yes the guy should not have resisted arrest, but there has to be a better way. They could have waited him out. It would be great if this story and others like it would get attention so that police training could be modified, but that's not going to happen because the race grievance industry is all over it now and they're only focusing on the cop using the chokehold when it's so much more than that and not a racial matter.
So while its an outage I'm not sure what the remedy should be. I don't think the one cop should take all the blame when it's part of the whole institutional training that they receive.

[PaceAdvantage]

You're giving way too much aid, comfort, and benefit of the doubt to the criminal element in all these cases.

Cops don't take any chances these days, and I don't really blame them given the level of scumbaggedness and depraved criminal insanity that they encounter on a daily basis. If you had to live in that world as a career, you might think differently as well.

Again, this doesn't excuse what happened IN THIS PARTICULAR case. But there is a reason why cops act the way they do.

They want to go home alive to their family at the end of their shift. That's their number one priority when you get right down to it...unless of course their shift happens to be in a cushy, hardly any violent crime community.

[PhantomOnTour]

I think Garner's size had a lot to do with the way he was taken down.
He couldn't be flung to the ground with an arm bar (grab wrist and apply downward pressure to back of elbow, and man goes down) or tripped up and taken down that way.
He was gang tackled in a choke hold...I think it was excessive and am surprised no charges were filed.

What about threatening him with a taser?
Most folks who get hit with that go straight to the ground.

[PaceAdvantage]

I love how some people want the cops to just sit around all day and wait for suspects to comply on their own terms...

Maybe they should have brought in a negotiator and a criminal psychiatrist to help bring this man under control.

Tasers? Probably would have given Garner a heart-attack instantly, which is probably WHY they didn't use one...of course, what they DID use ultimately contributed to his death. So it's a moot point anyway.

[reckless]

Originally Posted by badcompany

Even though Garner was a bum, the chokehold was out of line and the cop should've been charged with something.

Here's what I think happened. This is just an opinion from someone who knows Staten Island.

The cop is an Italian from Staten Island which is very Italian-American.

The jury was just protecting one of its own.

'Of the 23 members of the Garner grand jury, 14 are white, nine are non-white and at least five are black, according to two people familiar with the grand jury’s racial makeup', according to Traymaine Lee of MSNBC.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

You're giving way too much aid, comfort, and benefit of the doubt to the criminal element in all these cases.

Cops don't take any chances these days, and I don't really blame them given the level of scumbaggedness and depraved criminal insanity that they encounter on a daily basis. If you had to live in that world as a career, you might think differently as well.

Again, this doesn't excuse what happened IN THIS PARTICULAR case. But there is a reason why cops act the way they do.

They want to go home alive to their family at the end of their shift. That's their number one priority when you get right down to it...unless of course their shift happens to be in a cushy, hardly any violent crime community.

with all due respect that is a crock. nobody there was in danger of not going to home to their family. and I couldn't care less what other scumbags they have to deal with, they cannot use that as an excuse to trample and beat just anyone they meet to death. If their lives are being put in danger, yes by all means use force. this gigantic out of shape unarmed man with his arms up represented no physical threat to the 6 or 8 or 10 armed people on the scene.

I hear that all the time, there is a reason they do what they do, but all I'm saying is they need to be better trained. not every situation calls for a persons face to be smashed into the pavement with a knee to the back.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

with all due respect that is a crock. nobody there was in danger of not going to home to their family. and I couldn't care less what other scumbags they have to deal with, they cannot use that as an excuse to trample and beat just anyone they meet to death. If their lives are being put in danger, yes by all means use force. this gigantic out of shape unarmed man with his arms up represented no physical threat to the 6 or 8 or 10 armed people on the scene.

I hear that all the time, there is a reason they do what they do, but all I'm saying is they need to be better trained. not every situation calls for a persons face to be smashed into the pavement with a knee to the back.

Holding the head and knee on back/neck/arms/whatever is standard procedure (someone can correct me if I am way off base on that one). It's not life threatening and it doesn't produce any permanent damage.

I did not see anyone's face being SMASHED into the pavement.

I saw a suspect who refused to comply being taken into custody.

When you refuse to comply with a police officer's lawful request/order, there is a reason you are refusing. You are also signaling instantly that you now pose a greater danger to that police officer.

Again, if you were running the show, they might still be on that corner waiting for him to cooperate.

This particular instance turned tragic for a number of reasons. Not saying it was right and not saying I agree with what happened.

But YOU used THIS INCIDENT as a platform to condemn police in general. And I responded ALSO in generalities, which you then, for some reason, took issue with.

We're pretty much on the same page when it comes to THIS particular incident. But we're miles apart in general.

That was the main point.

[PaceAdvantage]

Does NYPD even carry tazers? I don't think I ever remember hearing of anyone being tazed (I like spelling it with a 'z') in NYC...