Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Handicapping Discussion


Poll: Should the Queens Plate be a G1 Race?
Poll Options
Should the Queens Plate be a G1 Race?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 07-02-2019, 10:34 AM   #1
HHE10
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 520
Should this race be a G1 race?

I always wondered why the $1,000,000 Queens Plate isn't a Grade 1 race. Just wondered what anyone else thought.
HHE10 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-02-2019, 10:47 AM   #2
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
Restricted to Canadian breds, thus it isn't eligible.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-02-2019, 01:20 PM   #3
Sparky13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 175
What are the requirements for a race to be a G1, G2 or G3?
Sparky13 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-03-2019, 01:26 AM   #4
GMB@BP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky13 View Post
What are the requirements for a race to be a G1, G2 or G3?
cant be restricted to state breds is a big one...other than that not sure there is. they have made races that did not exist grade 1's when they were created (BC for example).
GMB@BP is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-03-2019, 10:06 AM   #5
Tom
The Voice of Reason!
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,470
Most of them don't deserve it nowadays.
It's more of a breeder's thing than a good handicapping tool.
Can't have Gr1 races without Gr1 horses, and we have very few of those anymore.

Supposedly, from what I understand a committee (oh boy!) reviews races and what impact it has through the horses that come out of it. Like the Wood has not had any real impact on the Derby in a whole so it got downgraded.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Tom is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-03-2019, 10:29 AM   #6
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP View Post
cant be restricted to state breds is a big one...other than that not sure there is. they have made races that did not exist grade 1's when they were created (BC for example).
There is a purse requirement (think it is 300k for G1, 200k for G2, 100k for G3), no restrictions other than age/sex, and the race has to be run at least every other year. I think that is about it, the rest is subjective.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-03-2019, 02:00 PM   #7
the little guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,325
Races in Canada are also not Graded by the committee that grades US races. This is why, for instance, 2YO turf races like the Summer and Natalma are considered Grade 1s when they very obviously should not be.
the little guy is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-03-2019, 08:28 PM   #8
GMB@BP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by the little guy View Post
Races in Canada are also not Graded by the committee that grades US races. This is why, for instance, 2YO turf races like the Summer and Natalma are considered Grade 1s when they very obviously should not be.
good point.
GMB@BP is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-03-2019, 10:33 PM   #9
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by the little guy View Post
Races in Canada are also not Graded by the committee that grades US races. This is why, for instance, 2YO turf races like the Summer and Natalma are considered Grade 1s when they very obviously should not be.
The sprint they ran on Queen's Plate day is another example. It was a good race, but hardly a G1.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-04-2019, 10:38 AM   #10
the little guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj View Post
The sprint they ran on Queen's Plate day is another example. It was a good race, but hardly a G1.
Agreed. I feel like there may be one in the Fall that is similar as well, though, to be fair, the one in the Fall does sometimes get a strong field....not that I know exactly what constitutes a Grade 1 Turf Sprint ( if anything ).
the little guy is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-13-2019, 02:44 PM   #11
classhandicapper
Registered User
 
classhandicapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,528
I track the average winning Beyer figure for Grade 1/2/3 races in Canada vs. Grade 1/2/3 races in the US.

There's clearly a difference, but it's "partially" reflected in the purses.

Graded stakes purses in the US are a little higher on average than in Canada.

It's almost the same as comparing Grade 1 races in the US.

Some of the super elite Grade 1 races in the US have higher purses and higher average winning Beyer figures than other Grade 1s. On average they tend to draw stronger fields even though they are all called Grade 1.

Still though, you are better off looking at the field and seeing what types of horses the contenders and horses that did well have been running against and then ultimately how they do coming out of it because the label can be wrong in any given year depending on who shows up.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"

Last edited by classhandicapper; 07-13-2019 at 02:48 PM.
classhandicapper is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-20-2019, 04:44 PM   #12
thespaah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,510
I have older copies of the DRF . Graded races in Canada were given the designation "Grade 1-C" etc.
In my opinion there are FAR too many races the Jockey Club offers Graded stake designation.
Just because a race has a high purse, does not mean it deserves graded status.
For example, the West Virginia Derby has a slots and casino fueled purse, is I believe a Grade 3...

Last edited by thespaah; 07-20-2019 at 04:53 PM.
thespaah is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-14-2019, 12:24 PM   #13
GBL
Registered User
 
GBL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 34
To determine if a race is eligible for grading, the American Graded Stakes Committee uses the following criteria:

-- Purse requirement: That the race has a purse of at least $75,000. ($100,000 for Grade III, $200,000 for Grade II, and $300,000 for Grade I.)

-- Longevity: That the race has been run for two years under fundamentally the same conditions. (The race's distance for example may be slightly altered, but age and sex conditions may not.)

-- Restrictions: That the race may be restricted only in age and sex.

-- Drug testing: That post race drug testing is managed by a governmental authority.

-- Medication: That model rules on androgenic-anabolic steroids and non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs be followed. Specifically, only Boldenone, Nandrolone, Stanozolol, and Testosterone are allowed to be used. (this is a minimum standard – some racing jurisdictions have even higher restrictions on medications)

Last edited by GBL; 08-14-2019 at 12:25 PM. Reason: typo
GBL is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-25-2019, 09:55 PM   #14
HalvOnHorseracing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Denver
Posts: 4,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by HHE10 View Post
I always wondered why the $1,000,000 Queens Plate isn't a Grade 1 race. Just wondered what anyone else thought.
From my days of going to Fort Erie, they used to classify races as G1 (Can). Does that sound familiar?
HalvOnHorseracing is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-26-2019, 11:13 PM   #15
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing View Post
From my days of going to Fort Erie, they used to classify races as G1 (Can). Does that sound familiar?
They used to do it that way. In the data files I get, the Canadian graded races were coded as Grades 4, 5, and 6. The big races like the Woodbine Mile are coded as all other North American races, 1, 2, and 3.

Last edited by cj; 08-26-2019 at 11:16 PM.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.