Arlington Park and Sports Betting in Illinois

[mostpost]

Recently Illinois passed a massive Sports Betting and Casino expansion bill. Part of that bill provided that racetracks would be allowed to operate slot machines. video poker and a Sports Betting facility and a portion of those proceeds would go to race purses. As you all know, racing in Illinois has been in a steep decline for several years and one of the reasons is that purses have not kept pace with neighboring states where tracks are allowed to operate racinos-a combination race track and casino.

The new legislation allows Illinois tracks to do just that. Well, according to a story in today's Chicago Sun Times, Churchill Downs-the owners of Arlington Park-have decided not to apply for a license. You see, CD is also heavily invested in a nearby Illinois casino and they don't want the competition. In addition they are planning or hoping to build one of the six new casinos authorized by the new law. It looks as though they are just going to let AP just atrophy.

Here is what I would do if I were the authorities in Illinois. I would tell CD, if you don't put in a casino at AP and raise purses proportionately, you will not get racing dates in 2020. Or, you can sell the track to someone who will. If you choose to not sell the track and just shut it down, we will not approve your request for a license for another casino.

This should have been the salvation for Illinois racing. Instead a greedy corporation is putting the bottom line ahead of the good of an entire industry and the people who depend on it for a livelihood.

[horses4courses]

Disgraceful what CDI is doing - or not doing.
Arlington Park is one of the finest racetracks in the country.
There should be more than enough business for it to flourish.
With a casino, or without.

CDI, though, has closed Hollywood Park and Calder already.
Wouldn't phase them in the least to do the same in Chicago.

[Tom]

CD is nothing but BAD for racing.
Almost Stronach Junior.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Everyone knows that Twinspires has long been siding with the casino business side of gambling, 'cause that's where the money can be made. But instead of keeping that in mind, MostPost feels the need to remind of us his socialist views where "corporations are BAD, and government is GOOD". Check.

Here's the link to the story that's up for discussion:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/8/...-casino-racino

And here's the quote from a business person, who, err, wants to make a profit - or in other words, get paid for their time:

“Notwithstanding our steadfast commitment to the Illinois Thoroughbred racing industry and despite the good faith intentions of everyone involved in the passage of the Illinois Gaming Act, the economic terms under which Arlington would be granted a casino gaming license do not provide an acceptable financial return and we cannot responsibly proceed,” Carstanjen said in a statement.

He cited high licensing fees and competition from the thousands of video gambling terminals spreading across the Chicago area, plus up to six new casinos authorized under Illinois’ sweeping new gambling expansion. He also said the effective tax rate for a potential Arlington racino would be up to 20% higher than competitors due to the racetrack’s required contributions to a state fund for thoroughbred purses.

“It is with a heavy heart that we conclude that we can’t make this work,” Carstanjen said.

In world where critical thinking homework is performed before spouting off, it's easy - very easy - to see the root cause of the problem here. Illinois State Government is greedy. They want an effective 78% tax rate for a new Chicago casino.

https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/8/13...g-taxes-profit

I'll be bold and predict they'll want bettors to lay 6 to win 5 for sports betting in Illinois, rather than the traditional 10% vig. Numerous politicians are on record for proposing higher tax rates and coming down later as a "compromise", rather than go with a lower rate that would attract more investors. From the state that just doubled it's gas tax on July 1st, this is no surprise for anyone that's paying attention. Which of course does not include the OP.

I'm not a fan of Twinspires. They told us exactly how they feel about the future of the game, and horseplayers in general, when they rolled out that godawful wagering interface last December. But you can't blame them on this issue - nobody, in government or the private sector, is more corrupt than Pritzker, Maddigan, and the rest of the mugs that govern Illinois.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by Parkview_Pirate

Everyone knows that Twinspires has long been siding with the casino business side of gambling, 'cause that's where the money can be made. But instead of keeping that in mind, MostPost feels the need to remind of us his socialist views where "corporations are BAD, and government is GOOD". Check.

Here's the link to the story that's up for discussion:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/8/...-casino-racino

And here's the quote from a business person, who, err, wants to make a profit - or in other words, get paid for their time:



In world where critical thinking homework is performed before spouting off, it's easy - very easy - to see the root cause of the problem here. Illinois State Government is greedy. They want an effective 78% tax rate for a new Chicago casino.

https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/8/13...g-taxes-profit

I'll be bold and predict they'll want bettors to lay 6 to win 5 for sports betting in Illinois, rather than the traditional 10% vig. Numerous politicians are on record for proposing higher tax rates and coming down later as a "compromise", rather than go with a lower rate that would attract more investors. From the state that just doubled it's gas tax on July 1st, this is no surprise for anyone that's paying attention. Which of course does not include the OP.

I'm not a fan of Twinspires. They told us exactly how they feel about the future of the game, and horseplayers in general, when they rolled out that godawful wagering interface last December. But you can't blame th
em on this issue - nobody, in government or the private sector, is more corrupt than Pritzker, Maddigan, and the rest of the mugs that govern Illinois.

Laying -1.20, or 6 to win 5, makes absolutely no sense for Illinois, or anyone else, to implement.
Besides, they won't be booking the wagers themselves.
What they could do is tax the legal bookmaker into oblivion.

[Striker]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

Laying -1.20, or 6 to win 5, makes absolutely no sense for Illinois, or anyone else, to implement.
Besides, they won't be booking the wagers themselves.
What they could do is tax the legal bookmaker into oblivion.

A quick look at some of the costs for operating a sportsbook in the Midwest
Iowa—$45,000 for the license then $10k yearly renewal fees and the state will tax the revenue at 6.75%

Indiana—$75,000 for the license and then $50k every 5 years for updates background investigations and state will tax revenue at 9.25%

Illinois—$10 million for the license, then $1 million every 4 years to renew license and the state will tax revenue at 15%
Not hard to see where I would want to operate one.
It is almost guaranteed that Illinois sportsbooks will have a higher vig then Iowa and Indiana and you can obviously see why.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by Striker

A quick look at some of the costs for operating a sportsbook in the Midwest
Iowa—$45,000 for the license then $10k yearly renewal fees and the state will tax the revenue at 6.75%

Indiana—$75,000 for the license and then $50k every 5 years for updates background investigations and state will tax revenue at 9.25%

Illinois—$10 million for the license, then $1 million every 4 years to renew license and the state will tax revenue at 15%
Not hard to see where I would want to operate one.
It is almost guaranteed that Illinois sportsbooks will have a higher vig then Iowa and Indiana and you can obviously see why.

I could see it happening if it were to increase their revenues.
Thing is, 40 cent vig on straight bets would have the opposite effect.
Illinois will have a hard time finding bet layers under those terms.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by Parkview_Pirate

1. Everyone knows that Twinspires has long been siding with the casino business side of gambling, 'cause that's where the money can be made. But instead of keeping that in mind, MostPost feels the need to remind of us his socialist views where "corporations are BAD, and government is GOOD". Check.

Here's the link to the story that's up for discussion:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/8/...-casino-racino

And here's the quote from a business person, who, err, wants to make a profit - or in other words, get paid for their time:



2. In world where critical thinking homework is performed before spouting off, it's easy - very easy - to see the root cause of the problem here. Illinois State Government is greedy. They want an effective 78% tax rate for a new Chicago casino.

https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/8/13...g-taxes-profit

3. I'll be bold and predict they'll want bettors to lay 6 to win 5 for sports betting in Illinois, rather than the traditional 10% vig. Numerous politicians are on record for proposing higher tax rates and coming down later as a "compromise", rather than go with a lower rate that would attract more investors. From the state that just doubled it's gas tax on July 1st, this is no surprise for anyone that's paying attention. Which of course does not include the OP.

4. I'm not a fan of Twinspires. They told us exactly how they feel about the future of the game, and horseplayers in general, when they rolled out that godawful wagering interface last December. But you can't blame them on this issue - nobody, in government or the private sector, is more corrupt than Pritzker, Maddigan, and the rest of the mugs that govern Illinois.

1. There you go with the socialism nonsense again. If you are running a business, your first responsibility is to that business. So if you are running a racetrack, you do not refuse to take actions that will help that business and you certainly don't do anything that will hurt that business.

In case you think that having a casino and sports book at Arlington would hurt Arlington Park, you should know that the owners of Hawthorne are very enthusiastic about adding those things to their track. They are also among those who will be bidding on the new Racino to be built in the south suburbs.

Unfortunately it is all too common for corporations to cannibalize companies they own to increase profits for the privileged few.

2. It isn't the state of Illinois that wants a 78% effective tax on a Chicago casino. 33% of that is from an additional Chicago tax. Having said that, Chicago is going to price itself right out of the market. After all 10 or 15% of something is better than 33% of nothing.

Also in regards to this, Chicago is making a big mistake by placing the casino in south Chicago neighborhoods. No one is going to go there. The Casino has to be in the Loop or near Loop area. It has to be where the tourists are.

3. Since these casinos will be privately owned and run, I doubt that the government will have anything to do with the vigorish. As for that gas tax, gas prices in my area-and I would guess everywhere are lower now than they were before the tax increase. And those increases were necessary to pay for needed infrastructure repairs.

4. Here are a few people who are more corrupt than Pritzker, Madigan etc.
Donald Trump
Donald Trump Jr.
Eric Trump
Ivanka Trump
Paul Manifort
Michael Flynn
Michael Cohen

[cj]

I know it isn't really possible to discuss without getting politics involved, but lets keep away from the personal stuff and not go off in a direction totally away from horse racing.

[The_Turf_Monster]

I'm not convinced that this isn't a bluff by Arlington to get the percentage of profits dedicated to purses to be lowered. What that percentage would need to be in order to keep AP open and run a meet, who knows

[jimk849]

I agree with Mostpost. No casino, no Sports book license. I would call their bluff. CDI has ruined racing in Il. For the people that keep saying how beautiful AP is they are correct 1st class racetrack with 3rd rate racing.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by cj

I know it isn't really possible to discuss without getting politics involved, but lets keep away from the personal stuff and not go off in a direction totally away from horse racing.

Close it. It’s a dupe anyway!

[cj]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Close it. It’s a dupe anyway!

Where's the other one?

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by cj

Where's the other one?

The one you started: http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...d.php?t=154091

[cj]

Originally Posted by castaway01

The one you started: http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...d.php?t=154091

Ah, I thought he meant the post was a duplicate, even checked that thread to see if the same was already posted there.

That said, probably best to close this one anyway.