ALL DATA Free

[raybo]

Oh, by the way, your removing the two links to AllData's website and forum from my signature line, was uncalled for, and does not reflect well on you or your forum.

Why didn't you remove Hana's links also? After all I was 1 of the 5 or 6 members here who got that whole thing off the ground, so maybe you ought to disassociate me with that organization, also.

[Jeff P]

Ray,

The individual decision to participate or not participate is of course your right.

Paceadvantage is a community... about the only place on the web a guy like me can go in search of intelligently presentated ideas in the area of handicapping and betting.

As such I see Paceadvantage as a better more interesting community with participation from a guy like you than without.

Please consider sticking around and participating from time to time.


-jp

.

[Nets]

Ray,

I agree with Jeff. If I see your name associated with a thread, I always make sure to see what you have posted. You have created and shared a wonderful program with all of us, and it would be a shame to lose your contributions to this site.

Gary

[PaceAdvantage]

Hey my man Raybo, the high road you can NOT take here. Nice try though.

After I edited your reply in that other thread, I considered it CASE CLOSED.

BUT, you had to come here and make that all too obligatory "I'm Leaving Speech," and in the process, leave everyone in he dark as to exactly why, giving the impression that *I* had somehow done you wrong, when nothing could be further from the truth.

This is your doing. I sent you a PM and was quite happy leaving everything private until you decided to come here and announce to the world that there is some sort of mysterious conflict between you and this site.

I don't like mysteries when it comes to this website, so I decided to follow your lead and go public with what had been up until this point, a private matter.

But hey, before you leave for good, could you please detail for all what exactly your problem is with this site and the way it is run. I want to hear just how ridiculous you can be.

[raybo]

I felt I had an obligation to notify the members following the AllData project that I would not be posting in the AllData Free forum anymore, and that they could keep up with it on either of my sites. No ulterior motives.

They deserved a reason, I gave them one, without going into detail, which I felt was the appropriate thing to do. I didn't mention you at all. If anyone read that into my statement, I'm sorry, but I did what I thought was best and appropriate.

No, I will not go into specifics, as others have done that here with nothing good coming from it, so, you take that anyway you want.

[headhawg]

The really sad thing here is that there are people posting on this site everyday who contribute nothing. And I mean nothing. Even worse than that, they detract from the PA community because they are a$$hats, or at least a$$hat wannabes. So it's bothersome to me that they get to spew their empty-headed rhetoric without penalty and a real contributor like raybo decides to leave over philosophical differences which really boils down to ad money.

I'm not posting this to ruffle feathers; just noting that things seem out of balance.

[PaceAdvantage]

Does ANYONE know what Raybo's beef is about? Is he really pissed that I have paying advertisers?

I think we may have butted heads ONCE before this, again about something concerning advertisers, but we got over it and life went on.

I'm not going to apologize for having paying advertisers. I'm not as altruistic as Raybo I guess...although I'm thinking of maybe putting up a donations link...

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by headhawg

The really sad thing here is that there are people posting on this site everyday who contribute nothing.

Are they breaking any of the terms of the board by doing so? If not, would it be fair to kick them off because you think they aren't contributing anything?

Bottom line: my private message box is accessible to all. If anyone has a suggestion, or a reason why you think someone should be booted, I'm all ears. Just drop me a line. I'm a very reasonable person, despite my bad press...

[raybo]

Ok, here's the thing. I, personally would not accept any advertiser that advertises his/her product as something simple and easy, while charging for its use, when in actuality, it will not be simple and easy, it will cost the user over $200 and it only accepts entries and results data, which means the user must download or otherwise import thousands of entries and results, and spend extremely large amounts of time building up data for every individual horse that could possibly ever run at the tracks that user intends to play.

And that's just to get the data required into the database, then he/she must do all the myriad of other things required to actually use the program. My experience on this forum and others regarding the ability of many players to use software products of this complexity is, doubtful.

I apologize for making the post in the advertiser's thread, I should have just posed the question and not posted the derogatory statement, meant to warn users that the product might not be as simple and easy as the advertiser makes it seem.

There are many here who will spend the money and start going through the data collection and learning curve only to become frustrated at being unable to use it.

I have absolutely no problem with you, Mike, accepting paid advertisers as there is cost involved in a forum of this type, as well as much time to maintain it. I'm just saying that I personally would evaluate a potential advertiser's product, and make a determination as to what damage it might cause some of my members, before accepting them as a paid advertiser, which tends to be construed as your recommending the product they sell as exactly what is being advertised.

In this case I didn't need to use the free trial offered to know what would be involved in using the product.

[headhawg]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Are they breaking any of the terms of the board by doing so? If not, would it be fair to kick them off because you think they aren't contributing anything?

I wasn't suggesting that you do so, nor was I suggesting that you stop taking advertisers. I was just commenting on the state of the WorldWideInternetwork and its somewhat strange dynamic. More specifically I was thinking that 1 raybo = 1000 troll-like posters.

And personally I don't have a problem with advertisers. If they have a crap product or mislead customers they'll be found out soon enough, right here on PaceAdvantage.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by raybo

I have absolutely no problem with you, Mike, accepting paid advertisers as there is cost involved in a forum of this type, as well as much time to maintain it. I'm just saying that I personally would evaluate a potential advertiser's product, and make a determination as to what damage it might cause some of my members, before accepting them as a paid advertiser, which tends to be construed as your recommending the product they sell as exactly what is being advertised.

In this case I didn't need to use the free trial offered to know what would be involved in using the product.

Do you believe that ads you see on the various TV networks should be construed as the networks recommending the product? I don't. So why would you apply that standard here?

And you yourself see that they offer a free trial, which is more than some other vendors offer.

Hopefully, we can move past this, but if not, I wish you nothing but the best and thank you for your contributions here over the years...

[raybo]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Do you believe that ads you see on the various TV networks should be construed as the networks recommending the product? I don't. So why would you apply that standard here?

And you yourself see that they offer a free trial, which is more than some other vendors offer.

Hopefully, we can move past this, but if not, I wish you nothing but the best and thank you for your contributions here over the years...

Mike,

Regarding the first paragraph in the quote, I, and more than likely, most long time members here, hold you to a higher standard than a TV network. Otherwise, you would have advertisers that were offering products that are represented by misleading statements, regarding their product. I have never experienced that from your advertisers in the past and, therefore, assume that you screen advertisers prior to authorization. If this isn't the case then I apologize for making that assumption.

Yes, I was aware that a free trial was offered, prior to purchase, but as I stated, I did not need to use the free trial in order to reach the decision that the product would be very expensive, initially as well as ongoing, since the product does not allow the importation of past performance data, allowing the rapid and fairly inexpensive population of it's database. My evaluation from the initial information about the product was that the product would be very expensive and very time consuming for anyone not already possessing thousands of entries and results files for the tracks they play.

I have already apologized for the negative remark I made in the advertiser's thread. I was wrong and you were correct in removing it.

My posting in the AllData section, about no longer participating in this forum, was not meant to be offensive towards you or this forum, which I still believe is the best horse racing forum on the net. If you or anyone else found it offensive, then I apologize for that, also. I was simply notifying AllData users, as well as anyone who has interest in it now, or might have in the future, that they could find me, and information about AllData, via the AllData website or the Excel handicapping forum.

I have spent much time, since this incident, thinking about whether or not my decision to stop participating in the PA forum was made in haste, and driven primarily by emotion. I now feel that the decision was, indeed, made in haste and was driven by my emotions at that time.

I would like to move forward and put this unfortunate incident behind me. If you are agreeable, and accept my sincere apology, I hope we can put all this in the past and move on.

I, also, want to apologize to the advertiser, whose product I degraded, and to this entire forum, for creating that whole situation in the first place. I promise to try my best to never repeat the mistake in the future.

[gl45]

A man with high degree of class... . I'm sure there are many out there, here, I'm not so sure.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by raybo

I would like to move forward and put this unfortunate incident behind me. If you are agreeable, and accept my sincere apology, I hope we can put all this in the past and move on.

I've already stated I am willing to do as much. Not a problem...

[raybo]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I've already stated I am willing to do as much. Not a problem...

Thanks Mike.

Onward and upward!