Keeneland apparently raising takeout

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

HANA board member Dean Towers wrote the article. Who's the fool?

If Dean Towers wrote the article that you submitted...then Dean Towers is the fool. What "betrayal"...are you kidding me? Keeneland raising their takeout is equivalent to having them "sleep with your maid of honor on your wedding day"?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

There was no credible threat the last few years. They took a leadership role when they formed the organization and the leadership the last few years beginning with the prez has been weak at best. He should resign and they should find someone with conviction and resolve to lead Horseplayers.

Personally I have literally fought this fight EVERY day for seven years. All the work everyone has done including HANA just went up in smoke. I am the biggest fool of all right now for wasting my time.

You've shown plenty of "weakness" yourself. I was suggesting a California Racing boycott years ago...when you called yourself "Andymays" here. Neither you nor HANA were "ready" for a boycott then...you said it was "premature". You guys wanted to sit down in meetings with the industry leaders there. A lot of good that did.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

I provided a link to another thread earlier in this thread. Failure to stand up to Ca earlier in the year indirectly led to this. There is no stopping anyone from jacking up take at there will now.

Thanks, I will go back and try to find it.

For the record, whether you realize it or not, I've generally been on your side and have appreciated your passion whether you are Andy Asaro or Andymays. My last play on Cal racing came at the inception of the boycott a few years back. I'm willing to do my part. I am on your side, and HANA's side, and Thaskalos side, and EMD4YOUANDME's side. To quote the late great Eazy-E "We're all in the same gang."

[lamboguy]

everytime before this dumb move by Keeneland they targeted the smaller player which they never wanted to begin with because they cost to much to service. so now they are getting bolder and going after the bread and butter of the game these days and coming at them with the host fees. unless the adw's eat the increase, the track will suffer a massive decrease in business and will not make up the loss with increase in the take.

i fully expect them to be down a minimum of 10% and more likely more than that unless they have something else up their sleeves to obtain new business.


they will blow something like $4 or $5 million directly out of their pockets. i don't think they will be able maintain their already ridiculous overpaid salaries.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

Thanks, I will go back and try to find it.

For the record, whether you realize it or not, I've generally been on your side and have appreciated your passion whether you are Andy Asaro or Andymays. My last play on Cal racing came at the inception of the boycott a few years back. I'm willing to do my part. I am on your side, and HANA's side, and Thaskalos side, and EMD4YOUANDME's side. To quote the late great Eazy-E "We're all in the same gang."

My fault is that I get too pissed off and take things like the Keeneland takeout hike too personally. I'll take a break break for a while.

BTW this just in.

Keeneland Raises Takeout–And Ire of Horseplayers

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com...PFgYjo.twitter

[Aerocraft67]

Originally Posted by Seabiscuit@AR

The problem with raising purses is none of the raise in purses goes to the owners

Most of the raise goes to the breeding barons who own the studs. These breeding barons will raise their stud fees as soon as the purses go up

What you then end up with is higher yearling prices which means more expensive racehorses which means an ever smaller percentage of the population can afford to buy a horse. Which means less owners and less interest in the races etc etc

So that's why they call it "the sport of kings." With a few persistent peasants left to bet on it.

The kings play the game their way. I guess we need to play along and bet accordingly or find another game.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

everytime before this dumb move by Keeneland they targeted the smaller player which they never wanted to begin with because they cost to much to service. so now they are getting bolder and going after the bread and butter of the game these days and coming at them with the host fees. unless the adw's eat the increase, the track will suffer a massive decrease in business and will not make up the loss with increase in the take.

i fully expect them to be down a minimum of 10% and more likely more than that unless they have something else up their sleeves to obtain new business.


they will blow something like $4 or $5 million directly out of their pockets. i don't think they will be able maintain their already ridiculous overpaid salaries.

Interesting though, maybe better for the small player if these big rebate shops are not in the pools?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

I don't know what it is. I find that mission statements are generally either a pipe dream or complete feel-good gibberish so I rarely look.

I'm not trying to defend HANA. I'm trying to get you to explain what exactly could have been done and how they are failing horseplayers. I appreciate HANA, and I don't mean to offend them, but hasn't it always been a bit of a toothless tiger?

The notion that HANA, or Andy Asaro, in any way represent the horseplayers and their actions in this game is absolutely ridiculous, IMO. The horseplayer is AUTONOMOUS...and always will be so. The horseplayer makes his OWN decisions about what to do with his wagering money...and he alone could decide if he is willing to take a proactive stand when things such as this occur.

"Organized boycotts" are a MYTH...because the horseplayer is a habitual LIAR. He'll tell you that he is boycotting CA racing...even as he is filling out his Del Mar pick-6 ticket. A REAL boycott can only succeed when the horseplayer has individually had ENOUGH...and we obviously aren't at that stage yet.

For heaven's sake, Parx has a trifecta takeout of 31%...and they still attract major money to their trifecta pools. Doesn't that tell us all we need to know about the horseplayer's mentality...and his pain tolerance?

[Aerocraft67]

I have to admit, it did occur to me that there could be an opportunity in the track that all the sharps are exiting, obviously at the expense of the offending rake.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The notion that HANA, or Andy Asaro, in any way represent the horseplayers and their actions in this game is absolutely ridiculous, IMO. The horseplayer is AUTONOMOUS...and always will be so. The horseplayer makes his OWN decisions about what to do with his wagering money...and he alone could decide if he is willing to take a proactive stand when things such as this occur.

"Organized boycotts" are a MYTH...because the horseplayer is a habitual LIAR. He'll tell you that he is boycotting CA racing...even as he is filling out his Del Mar pick-6 ticket. A REAL boycott can only succeed when the horseplayer has individually had ENOUGH...and we obviously aren't at that stage yet.

For heaven's sake, Parx has a trifecta takeout of 31%...and they still attract major money to their trifecta pools. Doesn't that tell us all we need to know about the horseplayer's mentality...and his pain tolerance?

For the record I don't believe I represent all Horseplayers. I act alone because I am a true believer about what the game can be.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

For the record I don't believe I represent all Horseplayers. I act alone because I am a true believer about what the game can be.

I believe in what the game can be too...but I also realize that I am only an outsider looking in. This isn't "MY game"...and it wasn't created with MY financial interests in mind. The game was created for the "few"...to the detriment of the "many". And, when the "few" get too greedy, and act in ways which endanger the game's very existence...then, I realize that there is nothing that I could do, because I can't rescue the game from the fools who run it.

And...if the game dies...I mark it as a "suicide"...and I move on to the next game that will have me. In a game where greed dominates...the horseplayer is entitled to be a little "greedy" himself.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I believe in what the game can be too...but I also realize that I am only an outsider looking in. This isn't "MY game"...and it wasn't created with MY financial interests in mind. The game was created for the "few"...to the detriment of the "many". And, when the "few" get too greedy, and act in ways which endanger the game's very existence...then, I realize that there is nothing that I could do, because I can't rescue the game from the fools who run it.

And...if the game dies...I mark it as a "suicide"...and I move on to the next game that will have me. In a game where greed dominates...the horseplayer is entitled to be a little "greedy" himself.

Things would change in one month if the Everyone pulled together. If HANA calls for a a boycott will you help get people on board?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

Things would change in one month if the Everyone pulled together. If HANA calls for a a boycott will you help get people on board?

A surprisingly high number of my posts here have dealt with getting horseplayers "together"...so we could act in our own self-interest...just like the OTHER entities in this game do. OF COURSE, I'd be willing to help in organizing a boycott...but it should happen whether HANA calls for it or NOT.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

A surprisingly high number of my posts here have dealt with getting horseplayers "together"...so we could act in our own self-interest...just like the OTHER entities in this game do. OF COURSE, I'd be willing to help in organizing a boycott...but it should happen whether HANA calls for it or NOT.

Right on!

But, it can't be done effectively without them. Their press releases will be carried by most news outlets whereas an unofficial release will be ignored. It's about getting people fired up enough to tell their friends.

[Robert Fischer]

What we see here is a failure to show both the industry, and the players, that takeout significantly affects churn, and that churn significantly affects their bottom lines.

Without clear, convincing evidence, the industry is going to be fine with their current strategy, and the players will be largely indifferent (aside from 'outbursts' such as this thread).