Some thoughts regarding boycott/procott

[Scav]

Hello everyone, my name is Tom and I am an active member of DerbyTrail.com. First off, I would like to say thank you for all of your active thoughts and supports with the petition that you started. I, like many other horse players, have the same sentiments as many of you here. I want nothing more but to help with this 'cause' and I wanted to echo some thoughts that I have had regarding what the next move is.

1) Fail to plan, plan to fail - I always thought that this is complete BS and I learned this in college, a good lesson per say. My friends and I had the perfect party area at Southern Illinois. Plenty of room, plenty of bathrooms and plenty of areas to 'party' in away from everyone. Now if we came up with the idea to throw a kegger on a Saturday and it was already Wednesday, we would get minimal people and we would lose money (but not the hangover ). The one party that we advertised a month in advance, we ended up going through 9 kegs and 300 jello shots in 3 HOURS. People were everywhere because word of mouth grew it. I think that it is very important in this situation that we plan this out 60-90 days in advance, get that word of mouth out and people to support it, and remind them on a weekly basis leading up to it, so the full effect of us as horse players can be felt

2) Advertising - Going to every message board that we know and getting it into people's hands will make the difference between a minor success and major success. While I haven't talked to him yet, someone like Steve Byk, host of At the Races and Beyond on Sirius, would possibly talk about it on his radio show. Once we move forward with this and have a plan, I can talk to him about it. I think uniting all in this situation instead of one or two message boards will have a much fuller and complete effect.

3) Procott vs Boycott - Now while I will support either situation, my thoughts on a procott are that we are still feeding these ADW's with a track like Albq so they are still getting there piece of the pie. While I understand that is hard for us degenerates and professionals to not gamble/invest for one day, if we make on a Thursday, when a major Tracknet and TVG track is running, we would 'hurt' them and open up there eyes. Right now, they could care less about this ordeal because their pockets are not hurting enough yet. But if they were to lose just ONE DAY of handle, they would wake up. I have heard up to 90% of handle is coming from these ADW's, that is a huge chunk of cash. Imagine if handle was down 50% on a day at Aqueduct or Santa Anita, the industry would be a buzz and people would be panicing. Sadly in this day in age, you sometimes have to hurt someone to get their attention.

I have recently quit my dead end job and can put 100% of my time into this as long as it is done right. If it is done right, I see nothing but success coming from it. You can contact me via PM or this thread and I will start actively becoming a part of the war room and other threads around here.

Again, thank you Pace Advantage and lets continue to move forward with this.

Scav (Tom)

[BillW]

Welcome aboard Scav! Your thoughts and suggestions are surely welcome.

Bill

[facorsig]

I think the probability to achieve a 50% reduction against a major pool is low, very low, but the probability to increase the handle of a small pool is a lot higher.

[ceejay]

Thank you for your thought-out post, Tom. I agree with points 1 and 2, which are actually somewhat related.

Not sure about 3 but I'd take a Thursday off from work and bet into a designated pool. Even a Saturday could get noticed. 8/17 ALB did $85022 in handle. 300 people betting $150 each would raise that ~50%!

Welcome aboard!

[DeanT]

I will play in that situation.

If a track raises its handle by 50% like that, it can make a headline or two (imo).

I agree that is has to be well publicized and everyone must have it on the radar. If someone in the press picked up the day that the playing was going to happen, I bet a whole lot of people who are not members here would bet even 10 or 20 bucks that day as a show of support.

[prospector]

we need a name and outline our goals to get really good support from the public...a well laid out flyer requesting support for alb and no bets for woodbine would have to make sense to those who haven't a clue about what goes on...the track guys..
i just came back from placing a few bets at hoosier park ..the signal for arlington was pulled from them today..some of the regulars wanted to know why and no one knew what to tell them..except the old "we're working on it"
these guys are mad, but they don't know where to direct that anger..education should be part of the effort..

[Scav]

But if you do that through an ADW, they still get their cut. They get 5.5% of the revenue cut and dry. An ADW can care less what tracks you wager on, matter of fact, they would RATHER you wager through tracks like Albq because they might get a bigger cut.

Everything and I mean everything revolves around the player when it comes to these ADW. We essentially finance them 100% because make all their money and pay their bills based on handle that they collect.

Take away their food and they are going to get awful hungry and do what they have to do to make people happy.

I agree with Prospector that it needs to be planned out and carefully executed. I am going to talk to my DRF friend and ask them what they think from a media perspective which way he thinks would gain more publicity, because ultimately that is the goal.

[DeanT]

Hi Scav,

Don't you think that baby steps are in order tho?

What if betting ALB worked? What if Finley or someone wrote a story on a grass roots movement raised handle by 50%. What if another date was publicized off that momentum and we all raised handle by 100% or 200%?

I think that would energize people to join something like a boycott later because people will say "wow, that worked, I'd like to be a part of that".

If you say you are going to do something and it does not work, you kill all momentum, imo, and what you want to accomplish long-term is dead.

I'm with CJ. Plan this on the deadest day where a handle jump is noticed. And make sure the day is well publcized to all of us so we know what to do, and have time to load an account.

Just my thoughts.

[Scav]

My only concern in doing this is that 1) You are not taking anything away from the ADW, which is the goal of this, they are the problem, it isn't the tracks that are the problem 2) You are asking NY/Cali/Midwest bettors to put their hard earned money on a low level track that they never follow.

I couldn't agree more about the babysteps, but it will take alot for me to put $200 into a track like Albq, when a track like Belmont is running. I understand the principle, but I am trying to think like a gambler. As a gambler, I think it will be easier for a gambler to leave the whole day alone, then it is to focus on a low level track.

I look forward to planning this, however way we do it, hopefully we can get some sort of plan together to move forward with this sometime on near the end of September

[prospector]

i disagree that adw's are the major problem...i see any track that would sign an exclusive agreement, thus denying their signal to the whole base of racing and lining the pockets of one adw over the other adw's as the REAL problem..and there should be a penality imposed for such arrogance...

of course, we all could have different enemies as reasons for joining this movement..mine is to free the signals and level the playing field..the idea of having to bet with 3 different adws to handle all tracks is absurd..state laws are also on my list..as well as congress...i'm still pissed about losing pinnacle..
i can go quietly into the night and start playing sports..but why should i?

[chickenhead]

I think a boycott should cover all the TVG exclusive tracks as well as CDI.

TVG makes the case that handle is up at TVG tracks, therefore their current setup is working.

Tracknet argues that income is up at tracknet tracks, therefore their current setup is working.

Seems to me that what we want as bettors is not amenable to either of those setups, therefore any boycott that would suite our needs would need to be on ALL TVG Exclusive tracks, and Tracknet tracks. The monies instead need to go to the independant tracks.

[Scav]

Don't get me started on the Pinny ordeal. Betonline.com has the same type of horse rebates, but have yet to trust them. I am going to bet some sports with them and hopefully I get positive and request a withdrawal and see how the process goes.

None of these tracks will sign another 'exculsivity' agreement again. I think that time is over and done with and honestly, I am pretty surprised that TVG hasn't shared their signal because if they lose NY when their contract is over, good bye TVG.

I am a strong believer that boycotting the WHOLE DAY from online wagering will do the trick. Go to the OTB, go to the track, take the day off....I agree with chickenhead that all TVG and Tracknet tracks. I am going to start scouting a day towards the end of September where both have a track going.

These ADW's should compete based on customer service, loyalty and preferred wagering layout. They SHOULD NOT be competing with what tracks they offer. I can go three miles to the Arlington Park OTB and play all tracks at one time, or I can sit in my basement and play all tracks, with 10 windows up on my computer and chaos everywhere. I choose the OTB until Youbet gets everything back.

[mhrussell]

I think all this is great and support the various ideas presented. Many have merit and should be pursued. I think along the lines of others that a 'procott' would be more visible and utimately effective especially if smaller tracks could be targeted.

Myself, I would like to see an organized 'procot' of Ellis Park if only to support the 4% takeout P4. I realize that since Ellis is part of the 'enemy' in some respects, maybe we just target only the late P4 wager.. and no other bet.
I'm stuck because YouBet does not carry Ellis but I loved (and cashed big!) on Claiming Crown day (Youbet had Ellis that day..) and certainly want to support that 4% takeout P4 wager.

[Scav]

Ellis closes next week or the week after, so timing is bad, but that would be a great situation, we should have thought of that earlier but it would have been a perfect situation

[Tom]

Welcome, Scav, nice to have you with us.
Can never have too many Tom's on a board!