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02-21-2017, 08:23 PM
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#46
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Yeah, you do because you are so duplicitous, as you have just proved again.
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Ad hominem attack! Also violates #4,9 & 12 of the TOS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Again, Jesus' existence is accepted by most scholars in this world.
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Argumentum ad populum! I.e., appeal to the people. If enough people believe it, it must be true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Some eyewitnesses to his life, death, burial and resurrection actually wrote parts of the NT -- John and Peter. Luke traveled with Paul and had the eyewitness accounts of the apostles Paul met with -- plus other eyewitnesses. Paul also saw the risen Christ and he wrote at least seven epistles. It is also very likely that Matthew is the Jewish tax collector Levi who came to faith in Jesus. (It was very common in the ANE for a person to have two first names!) Mark was very good friends with Peter and undoubtedly drew very much of his material from the apostle, etc.
In short, Jesus' existence is extremely well attested to. It is no wonder that no ancient writer or historian ever disputed his existence. Not even the Christ-hating Jews in the Babylonian Talmud denied his existence. And if anyone didn't want Jesus to exist, it would have been them!
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As you are fond of saying, "We've been down this road before." The question of the moment is whether the alleged resurrection is the most attested event in ancient history. It's an outlandish claim and as the claimant the burden of proof is on you.
__________________
Sapere aude
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02-21-2017, 08:49 PM
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#47
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
Ad hominem attack! Also violates #4,9 & 12 of the TOS.
Argumentum ad populum! I.e., appeal to the people. If enough people believe it, it must be true.
As you are fond of saying, "We've been down this road before." The question of the moment is whether the alleged resurrection is the most attested event in ancient history. It's an outlandish claim and as the claimant the burden of proof is on you.
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Oh, it is indeed. The resurrected Christ was seen by four (4) NT writers (not 3 as previously stated). Peter, John and Paul. Then there is James who wrote James. Granted, scholars aren't certain which James is it is: Is it one of the original apostles or is it Jesus' brother James who converted after he saw his resurrected brother? In either case...all the above were certainly contemporary with Jesus. Then you toss in Mark who received much of his material from Peter. And Luke saw all the apostles (or certainly most of them) and traveled with Paul. So, Luke got much of his information from them, as well as being eyewitness to many if not most of the miracles Paul performed, etc., etc. We couple all these facts with the consistency of all the different resurrection accounts, the transformed lives, the thousands who converted to Christ through gospel preaching etc., and the resurrection is the logical inference to the best explanation.
Have a nice night, sir.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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02-21-2017, 08:56 PM
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Oh, it is indeed. The resurrected Christ was seen by four (4) NT writers (not 3 as previously stated). Peter, John and Paul. Then there is James who wrote James. Granted, scholars aren't certain which James is it is: Is it one of the original apostles or is it Jesus' brother James who converted after he saw his resurrected brother? In either case...all the above were certainly contemporary with Jesus. Then you toss in Mark who received much of his material from Peter. And Luke saw all the apostles (or certainly most of them) and traveled with Paul. So, Luke got much of his information from them, as well as being eyewitness to many if not most of the miracles Paul performed, etc., etc. We couple all these facts with the consistency of all the different resurrection accounts, the transformed lives, the thousands who converted to Christ through gospel preaching etc., and the resurrection is the logical inference to the best explanation.
Have a nice night, sir.
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"Resurrection", and "logical"...used in the same sentence...without speaking in jest. If this is what "faith" is...then I want no part of it.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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02-21-2017, 09:02 PM
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
"Resurrection", and "logical"...used in the same sentence...without speaking in jest. If this is what "faith" is...then I want no part of it.
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Right. You'd much prefer to stick with your irrational blind doubts.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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02-21-2017, 09:09 PM
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Right. You'd much prefer to stick with your irrational blind doubts.
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If I believe that a man actually resurrected himself from the dead, then...could I ever doubt ANYTHING in life?
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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02-21-2017, 09:15 PM
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#51
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus
There is a possibility that Josephus aided members of the Flavian dynasty to concoct a new religious narrative in the attempt to transform rebellious Jews into subservient taxpayers.....and the new narrative worked as many Jews converted....Josephus fully defected to the Roman side.
Last edited by VigorsTheGrey; 02-21-2017 at 09:16 PM.
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02-21-2017, 09:38 PM
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#52
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
If I believe that a man actually resurrected himself from the dead, then...could I ever doubt ANYTHING in life?
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I doubt it, paradoxically...
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02-22-2017, 03:34 AM
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#53
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Oh, it is indeed. The resurrected Christ was seen by four (4) NT writers (not 3 as previously stated).
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And Snow White lived for years with seven horny guys, remained a virgin, and was resurrected by love's first kiss.
__________________
Sapere aude
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02-22-2017, 11:13 AM
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#54
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth by JGJackson
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02-22-2017, 01:08 PM
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#55
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
I dedicate this thread to all skeptics -- Actor, Hcap, Thaskalos, Vig, etc. This is the place to come to learn about true religion and the one true God.
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Am I first in the list because you think I'm the most skeptical? Or is it just in alphabetical order?
__________________
Sapere aude
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02-22-2017, 01:30 PM
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#56
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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For a brief synopsis of the psychological unpinnings of the rabidly regilious mindset see page 503 of the following document:
https://archive.org/stream/MichaelTs.../n503/mode/1up
And the pages that follow page 505 are well worth the time spent here to examine their contents...
Last edited by VigorsTheGrey; 02-22-2017 at 01:34 PM.
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02-22-2017, 01:45 PM
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,034
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500 pages???
Can't you just say bat**** crazy and be done with it?
__________________
All I needed in life I learned from Gary Larson.
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02-22-2017, 01:51 PM
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#58
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
Why don't you?
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Because you'd miss me.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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02-22-2017, 01:52 PM
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#59
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJDave
500 pages???
Can't you just say bat**** crazy and be done with it?
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OK, bat......crazy!....but it still is an interesting read....and even with all this, religionists will admit no problems....all is well....in the garden, Chauncey...
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02-22-2017, 01:53 PM
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
Am I first in the list because you think I'm the most skeptical? Or is it just in alphabetical order?
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Why do you ask: Are you looking to be awarded with a trophy of participation?
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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