Equibase flexes its muscle

[michiken]

Just saw this on brisbet.

'This product was created, in part, with data supplied by Equibase Company LLC. User agrees not to make commercial use of or to redistribute this product'.

WTF?

[kenwoodallpromos]

Yesterday I used Brisnet "DRF Condensed PP's with Comments"- had M/L, class and speed ratings- none of which the same PP's had on DRF!!

[xfile]

Are you two guys smoking strange herbs from a strange pipe?

[cj]

Which product?

[michiken]

This disclaimer now appears on the profit line and track programs.

Not that the screen was overcrowded as it is!

[xfile]

Originally Posted by michiken

This disclaimer now appears on the profit line and track programs.

Not that the screen was overcrowded as it is!

So? What's the signifigance to devote a thread to it?

[michiken]

The significance is to point out where things are heading with the data monopoly:

1. I used to enjoy reading DRF articles for free. Now they want a permanent cookie and life history to view them?

2. I used to enjoy reviewing the previous days race results for free. Equibase moved to encrypted pdf's and bris now requires java script and cookies?

3. I spent 4 years developing one of the 1st web based handicapping programs that would graph pace and speed figures. Bris was not interested sponsoring it because having 'their' data stored on another server would violate their agreement with Equibase.

4. Why do I have to punished for the off shores and chart parsers that chose to use/resell the free stuff for their own gain?

5. What's next for all of the other software developer's? Encrypted/DRM data? Legal agreements where they hold your house for collateral?

I just don't like the tunnel vision of the proprietary data monopoly network. It will not be good for racing nor will it benefit the average user. It will not attract new blood to the sport.

I for one have chosen to go back to being anonymous and maintain my privacy. No longer will equibase or bris get a dime from me. All my accounts have been cancelled.

You are 100% right.

There is only one way to stop all of this insanity and that is to break their monopoly. Organize and start a class action lawsuit. I will donate $2,500 as a start if someone wants to organize and get the process rolling.

[Tom]

It is really getting ridiculous - they have no repsect for loyal customers who are not stealing anything, just trying to use the products they have already PAID for.
MY DRF sub expires next week, and I will never renew. Last night, I tried to download chart - I ahve paid for unlimited chart, right? So I try to downloa the week's charts for four tracks, and had to go thorught the stuipid encryption thing three time for every two cards!
And they don't even have the courtesy to have it take you back to the download page, and even the file I selected didn ot download - I had to go back online later and get all the ones that I thought I downloaded.
And they could at least use a font you cant read - the one they have makes no distinction between a 9 and a g, and when you get it wrong, you have to go through the whole think all over again!
DRF has no class at all.
What I hope is their blatant disreguard to customers backfires and people start stealing/sharing/distributing ther stupid data all over the internet.
Wouldn't it serve DRF/BRIS right is someone were to blast their sites tight off the net on big race days - Derby, Breeder's cup, etc?
Wonder what the cost would be to the data whores? I would my ass off.

[michiken]

Originally Posted by Tom

Wouldn't it serve DRF/BRIS right is someone were to blast their sites tight off the net on big race days - Derby, Breeder's cup, etc?

1. Tom a denial of service attack is a BRILLIANT idea however it is totally illegal and punishable by law.

Originally Posted by standaman

Organize and start a class action lawsuit.....

2. I also agree, however a class action law suit is too expensive.

3. What legal rights and power do we have?

a. What if we had enough users to boycott all online data downloads and online wagering for the entire Derby Week in protest? This would be legal.

b. What if we all got off our fat asses and actual drove to the track or OTB to bet the derby? Maybe if we show our support the actual Tracks, it will send a message? I for one could use a hard copy program to handicap.

c. Doing these two small things would eliminate all commisions that they make on the wagers for one week.

As I have already cancelled my accounts, I guess I am the first volunteer to start the boycott...........

[kev]

Almost everybody is linked to equibase somehow right?? I think maybe only one The Ragozin Sheets are not, now Thorograph is cause of the trainer stats they have. The sheets do have to use their charts so maybe no one is free. If you only used their charts like they do, I guess you would still have to still deal with them uh? Maybe if they just would wacth tapes of the races then they wouldnt have to use their charts. Big E has everyone on lock-down. Give it time someone will come along and have data to sell like they do, but will they sell out?

[Tom]

Michiken -
While I would appluad that type of attack, I would not know how to do it myself. The proof of this is that DRF is still operting!

[traynor]

What Equibase and BRIS offer is convenience, not data. It is catering to the handicapper who wants to point-and-click to download races that enables them to prosper. I see nothing wrong with a willing seller/willing buyer scenario.

The problem seems to be that while attracted by convenience, the convenience is not delivered--only the data. There may be alternatives. While some seem willing to put up money for a legal action, what is needed is time, and cohesion. It is possible to create alternatives. For one thing, reverse engineering a PDF is not rocket science. Encrypted PDF slows the process a bit, but not much. It is more an issue that the software developers are wired in to kickbacks from data providers as a revenue source, and design applications that require the daily fix from Equibase to function.

It doesn't seem difficult to join with a group of dedicated handicappers, create a spec for what you want, and go shopping for a developer who will produce it. I suggest the first constraint be that it must NOT require data downloads to function. Downloads, yes. Not the daily Equibase fix.

The issue is not so much the arrogance of Equibase (BRIS, DRF, etc.) as the willingness of the multitude to accept that arrogance as the price of admission. It is equivalent to an Escalade and an Excursion owner complaining about the price of gasoline, or the arrogance of Exxon (nice parachute for the retiring CEO of Exxon by the way).

I am not suggesting that everyone give up their favorite app. I am suggesting that the necessity to wire in to Equibase derives from the software applications used; the software applications used have deficiencies in design that require Equibase subscriptions. There are alternatives, but those alternatives require time and effort to implement.

Consider one (overly) simplistic alternative; 100 subscribers pay $120-150 each month for Equibase data. That is $12,000-15,000. That same 100 could organize sufficiently to hire (and double check, triple check, and validate) data entry from freely available sources by (my favorites, graduate students). All it takes is weaning the software developers away from THEIR commissions on subscriptions. As an alternative, draw up a set of specs and hire a WIPRO wannabe in Bangalore to produce it. If you choose to go that direction, it would be a simple matter to require that the app accept (and internally parse) PDF docs.

Why does that seem such an absurd idea? Because the Lone Ranger Syndrome is alive and well in handicapping. Despite all the benefit there would be from such action, it is unlikely to be taken. The preference is "my time is way too valuable for that, I'll just wait until someone else does it and give them a few bucks and enjoy the benefits." Which brings us around full circle, because that is the precise mindset that Equibase thrives on. Convenience for the Very Important People who cannot be bothered with complexity or inconvenience. If you want that convenience, you either pay the price, or you find an alternative. (Boycotting DRF during Derby Week is not an alternative, in any meaningful sense.)
Good Luck

[twindouble]

Traynor; I agree, I'm very happy with the products I buy and don't want to or have time to be bothered. It's worth the bucks I pay by a large margin.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by michiken

The significance is to point out where things are heading with the data monopoly:

1. I used to enjoy reading DRF articles for free. Now they want a permanent cookie and life history to view them?


3. I spent 4 years developing one of the 1st web based handicapping programs that would graph pace and speed figures. Bris was not interested sponsoring it because having 'their' data stored on another server would violate their agreement with Equibase.

I for one have chosen to go back to being anonymous and maintain my privacy. No longer will equibase or bris get a dime from me. All my accounts have been cancelled.

I've been kicking around the idea of parsing the free charts and then graphing the data (using Perl, where I would combine a number of different graphs). No pace/speed figures involved. These would be a nice preliminary (and then an augmenting document) to actually tripping the race or a standalone for those who don't watch races.

BRIS would bark at this?


From what I've seen of your past posts, you appear to be someone who's sophisticated technically. A result of that sophistication is the migration towards anonymity, as you're well aware of what can happen with personal info online. It's absolutely beyond comprehension to me that
these suppliers are patronized, given all the personal info they require. Needless to say, I'm not exactly confident in their ability to protect my anonymity.

Much to be said about doing it the old way and going to the track.
No one knows who you are. You don't pay taxes. You don't need to put up with online BS. etc.

Yeah, I really need to do all the extra work to read the DRF articles.

How many NYC cards per month, DRF? (Clue: it's not 20)