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05-07-2014, 03:45 PM
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTM Al
It is distributed outside the property to the best of my memory.
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There is a stand outside the escalator to the 2nd floor underneath the stands that has them when I was last there, the last day of the 2013 meet. And I am glad it is there; it is a must-read.
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05-07-2014, 05:46 PM
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
I never even heard of this publication until now. I just read through some of the archive. Some of it is pretty funny stuff. When I first saw the comment that got him into trouble I thought he must be a total idiot for saying something like that. I didn't even realize it was a joke. But in light of what I saw in the archive it was obviously a joke. It might have been in poor taste, but some of the greatest comedians of all time made their living on jokes like that. In this environment I can see why NYRA and others are doing what they are doing, but I really wish we would all lighten up a little.
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Don Rickles was on Letterman a couple nights ago. Racist satire is alive and well. Letterman looked like he wanted to dive under his desk a couple times.
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05-07-2014, 05:59 PM
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#33
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTM Al
I am unaware of any other unofficial materials distributed on site. As I said though, they have the right by law to ban anyone from the track property, so your analogy doesn't work on a couple levels.
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As long as it isn't based on race, gender or religion, a privately-owned racetrack can certainly do as they please. However, I know the old NJSEA (when it operated the Meadowlands) didn't have such wide discretion b/c of the public ownership status.
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05-07-2014, 06:26 PM
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#34
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Track Announcer
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 521
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Poorly-written, second-rate satire.
No loss at all.
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05-07-2014, 06:35 PM
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#35
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Smartass
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTM Al
I am unaware of any other unofficial materials distributed on site. As I said though, they have the right by law to ban anyone from the track property, so your analogy doesn't work on a couple levels.
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If the first part is true, then they are fine, although it's weird to single out one person or publication if no one else does it; just ban the practice entirely.
The second part just isn't true, as Saratoga Mike pointed out.
The easy solution to this is just to not let people hand out crap at the park. They could certainly do that.
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05-07-2014, 06:37 PM
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#36
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intus habes, quem poscis
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 9,776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Boy
If the first part is true, then they are fine, although it's weird to single out one person or publication if no one else does it; just ban the practice entirely.
The second part just isn't true, as Saratoga Mike pointed out.
The easy solution to this is just to not let people hand out crap at the park. They could certainly do that.
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If that was really the standard, and I am not sure it really is, they could do that.
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05-07-2014, 09:58 PM
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultracapper
Don Rickles was on Letterman a couple nights ago. Racist satire is alive and well. Letterman looked like he wanted to dive under his desk a couple times.
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Letterman wouldn't know comedy if it bit him on the nose
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05-08-2014, 12:32 AM
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#38
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self medicated
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: toga
Posts: 3,077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mineshaft
Great then enlighten us your majesty
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I will. Its been around for years. There's not a "real" story in there. "Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story." Almost the entire circulation and readership is the backside of the track. The people that work back there look for it. The whole thing is a joke and always has been for laughs. It must of struck some kind of nerve because there's been worse things than that in there. You guys are kind of clueless. Take a close look at the advertisers (and stories), its all geared towards horse people. It was never meant for the track but Keenland had ads in there. It sucks so bad, then why is it so popular? I've seen people up here looking for it the morning it comes out. It gets handed out all through the backside. Every one back there knows what Indian Charlie is.....even the Mexicans....there's pictures too..just in case...
Last edited by burnsy; 05-08-2014 at 12:46 AM.
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05-08-2014, 09:22 AM
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#39
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intus habes, quem poscis
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 9,776
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Another issue which has been missed here deals with laws involving the workplace. An employer who knowingly allows a situation potentially involving harassment to occur in the workplace is liable should such claims be made. This not only applies to the employees but anyone who may come into that workplace, thus you cannot make the argument that trainers, etc. are not employees. For an extreme example, just because the New York (Toys R Us) Racing Association is run by the State in effect, free speech laws, even if they applied here which I still say they don't, still would not override not allowing the KKK to distribute their literature on track property. They would be completely within the laws regarding the workplace to do so.
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05-08-2014, 10:12 AM
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#40
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTM Al
Another issue which has been missed here deals with laws involving the workplace. An employer who knowingly allows a situation potentially involving harassment to occur in the workplace is liable should such claims be made. This not only applies to the employees but anyone who may come into that workplace, thus you cannot make the argument that trainers, etc. are not employees. For an extreme example, just because the New York (Toys R Us) Racing Association is run by the State in effect, free speech laws, even if they applied here which I still say they don't, still would not override not allowing the KKK to distribute their literature on track property. They would be completely within the laws regarding the workplace to do so.
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Is that a command or a dictate? Or just your wild a-- guess?
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05-08-2014, 12:01 PM
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#41
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intus habes, quem poscis
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 9,776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker7
Is that a command or a dictate? Or just your wild a-- guess?
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No. There has been case law in which an employer was held liable for allowing racially charged material on the premises of the workplace which was seen by an individual that was not employed by the employer but was rather subcontracted to be there, who then issued complaint. The relationship between tracks and horsemen is enough to issue the complaint of a hostile work environment. I'll also say where I work harassment issues do come up frequently enough and the office I'm in has to deal with them. You really don't want to mess with these laws if you have half a brain.
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05-08-2014, 01:58 PM
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#42
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTM Al
No. There has been case law in which an employer was held liable for allowing racially charged material on the premises of the workplace which was seen by an individual that was not employed by the employer but was rather subcontracted to be there, who then issued complaint. The relationship between tracks and horsemen is enough to issue the complaint of a hostile work environment. I'll also say where I work harassment issues do come up frequently enough and the office I'm in has to deal with them. You really don't want to mess with these laws if you have half a brain.
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You're interpreting something similar-but-different, allowing for no legal wiggle room, and issuing an opinion as a practicing lawyer, iow?
I'm not arguing that there are/are not workplace laws. I'm trying to figure out why you seem so cocksure.
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05-08-2014, 02:02 PM
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#43
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker7
You're interpreting something similar-but-different, allowing for no legal wiggle room, and issuing an opinion as a practicing lawyer, iow?
I'm not arguing that there are/are not workplace laws. I'm trying to figure out why you seem so cocksure.
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Practices employment law perhaps?
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05-08-2014, 02:39 PM
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#44
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker7
You're interpreting something similar-but-different, allowing for no legal wiggle room, and issuing an opinion as a practicing lawyer, iow?
I'm not arguing that there are/are not workplace laws. I'm trying to figure out why you seem so cocksure.
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You seem like a lawyer yourself...eager to argue your ass off...I'm like that too...
But in this case, you're badgering Al, and I'd prefer you stop.
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05-08-2014, 02:45 PM
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#45
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intus habes, quem poscis
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 9,776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike
Practices employment law perhaps?
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Nope, work in a university but my office has to deal with complaints of harassment in our departments in conjunction with the university's Office of General Council. Also have been trained in workplace issues such as this. I am offering an opinion based on my experience in these areas and it is clear to me that this is not a 1st amendment issue for reasons previously stated and that having such a publication in the workspace can be grounds for a complaint concerning the creation of a hostile workplace if management is aware and allows such a publication to be distributed on their property. You don't need to be a lawyer to understand the laws and the way they work.
Does what is in the particular issue rise to the level of creating a hostile workplace? Maybe, maybe not, though I lean more to the yes than the no. But I am aware of other things he has written that certainly would. Any business would be stupid to take that risk and they are within the law in not letting that happen. If the guy wants to stand outside the gates and hand it out, he can. No one is stopping him from that.
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