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08-09-2022, 10:26 AM
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,625
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I think it's on the riders to decide where the line is between the type of race riding that has existed for decades and when it's dangerous behavior that puts someone at risk. It's not just about herding. Riders also try to make it tight along the rail, try to box horses in tight, drift on the turns, purposely come in/out at the start etc... I'm not sure what recourse the riders have, but there must be someone that can do something if there are multiple complaints about the same rider. If they aren't complaining, it's tougher to do something because that means they all want to race ride at times and will only complain about very specific rides. Right or wrong, as far as I could tell, Velasquez was OK with Ortiz's ride because he was well clear. Who is going to do something when the other rider doesn't even complain (as least publicly).
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
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08-09-2022, 10:45 AM
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#32
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self medicated
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: toga
Posts: 3,090
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And all this crap about Irad. He’s just the best rider right now, by a margin. Forget about the Whitney. Watch the 10 th on Sunday. 1 Digital Software. A 50 k claiming race on the turf. It’s a textbook ride , nothing spectacular but he just rates that horse perfectly and in the process outrides some of the other top jocks. That horse wins for fun like he outclassed the field which looking at that horse. Well , he’s not that much better. I don’t know if there’s a stat for the margin of winning. But the guy probably wins more races by open lengths than anyone. There’s also a thing called “envy” when you have the talent.
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08-09-2022, 10:55 AM
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#33
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2021
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsy
And all this crap about Irad. He’s just the best rider right now, by a margin. Forget about the Whitney. Watch the 10 th on Sunday. 1 Digital Software. A 50 k claiming race on the turf. It’s a textbook ride , nothing spectacular but he just rates that horse perfectly and in the process outrides some of the other top jocks. That horse wins for fun like he outclassed the field which looking at that horse. Well , he’s not that much better. I don’t know if there’s a stat for the margin of winning. But the guy probably wins more races by open lengths than anyone. There’s also a thing called “envy” when you have the talent.
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Jockeys need to be keen on pace and position....
Thou he was 5/2 , him winning wasn't a surprise....
The ride was.....being on the rail and in 6th position ...he judged the pace was fast(47.3) ....he tipped out to not get boxed and the rest was history...
Do yo how many time Carmouche gets caught on the rail with the best horse??
You need a "timer" in your head on when to do things
and some are better than others!!!
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08-09-2022, 11:11 AM
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#34
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsy
And all this crap about Irad. He’s just the best rider right now, by a margin. Forget about the Whitney. Watch the 10 th on Sunday. 1 Digital Software. A 50 k claiming race on the turf. It’s a textbook ride , nothing spectacular but he just rates that horse perfectly and in the process outrides some of the other top jocks. That horse wins for fun like he outclassed the field which looking at that horse. Well , he’s not that much better. I don’t know if there’s a stat for the margin of winning. But the guy probably wins more races by open lengths than anyone. There’s also a thing called “envy” when you have the talent.
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He is one of the best riders, not the best by a margin. This misconception is what causes him to get bet so heavily, too heavily. I'll say he has the best agent hands down.
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08-09-2022, 11:29 AM
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 989
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Quote:
I’ll add this - if Irad was doing this in late 90’s-early 2000’s SoCal there is no way guys like Nakatani, Pedroza or PVal would’ve put up with his repeated antics
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Not to mention McCarron, Pincay, Desormeaux, Eddie D, Flores, Antley, and others. What a colony that was.
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08-09-2022, 03:24 PM
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#36
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SaratogaFan1
Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsy
And all this crap about Irad. He’s just the best rider right now, by a margin. Forget about the Whitney. Watch the 10 th on Sunday. 1 Digital Software. A 50 k claiming race on the turf. It’s a textbook ride , nothing spectacular but he just rates that horse perfectly and in the process outrides some of the other top jocks. That horse wins for fun like he outclassed the field which looking at that horse. Well , he’s not that much better. I don’t know if there’s a stat for the margin of winning. But the guy probably wins more races by open lengths than anyone. There’s also a thing called “envy” when you have the talent.
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He gets the cream of the crop from the top two NYRA barns. That horse was the cream of the crop in that race.
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08-10-2022, 03:13 PM
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 997
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after today's Race 3 incident at Saratoga, Irad can pretty much do whatever he wants at NYRA.
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08-10-2022, 03:26 PM
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
Well, one of the NYRA made men can go ask why they let him get away with his dangerous riding and put everyone's mind at ease.
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Did anyone just watch race #3 at Saratoga where Irad just took the field out from the gate: I could not believe how he came across the field out of the gate. Some horses had to steady, it cost some horses the ability to progress. the FSN guys were discussing his recklessness- again: Fortunately his horse got nipped at the wire by Con Man. He is going to cause a horrible incident before he is finally stopped. It will be very sad-- Apparently he does not care and nobody has the balls to get in his face and tell him to stop being reckless or they will take care of him. That is what he needs. He needs to be scared straight.
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08-11-2022, 08:27 AM
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbaro123
Did anyone just watch race #3 at Saratoga where Irad just took the field out from the gate: I could not believe how he came across the field out of the gate. Some horses had to steady, it cost some horses the ability to progress. the FSN guys were discussing his recklessness- again: Fortunately his horse got nipped at the wire by Con Man. He is going to cause a horrible incident before he is finally stopped. It will be very sad-- Apparently he does not care and nobody has the balls to get in his face and tell him to stop being reckless or they will take care of him. That is what he needs. He needs to be scared straight.
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If he is continuing his dangerous ways the other Jocks should contemplate refusing to ride in any race he's riding and the Jockeys Guild should support that. Never happen but it should
And I'll say it again someone besides Irad and the connections are benefitting from his reckless rides or it would stop. I trust nobody when it comes to gambling
Last edited by Andy Asaro; 08-11-2022 at 08:33 AM.
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08-11-2022, 09:13 AM
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#40
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,559
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Athletes in general, in today's world, have more sensitive treatment from coaches, as well as the agents, ownerships, and sponsorships.
but Irad, or anyone else does get spoken to behind the scenes. Irad is a 'made man' compared to a lot of fringe or outsider jockeys, but he's not at all so compared to the billionaires running the game. He does get spoken to.
For us fans it's fun to have villains. Something to talk about.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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08-11-2022, 09:54 AM
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#41
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,888
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This guy is a menace ands a looooong vacation.
90 days would be nice. 120 better.
But the stewards are clearly incompetent at best.
This track is minor league. I believe NYRA can rule him offf the grounds, is that correct? They need to come out of that effing tree house and start protecting their bettors. If they are able and don't, they are condoning this azzhole.
That is a slap in the face to their customers.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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08-11-2022, 09:57 AM
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 436
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This incident took all the attention off the #1 horse who caused just as much trouble without the 9 horse being involved....well almost as much. Stewards usually don't make changes for infractions at gate break unless a horse falls down. That's the way it has always been. Why this is even a debate is ridiculous. Let us not forget Bayern in the BCC.
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08-11-2022, 10:01 AM
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#43
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Gobbi
after today's Race 3 incident at Saratoga, Irad can pretty much do whatever he wants at NYRA.
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It has been that way all year. It is almost like the stewards thought the 30 days (which was fake 30 anyway) would fix things, but since it hasn't they are basically giving up. They don't have the marbles to step it up to 60.
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08-11-2022, 10:04 AM
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#44
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westernmassbob
This incident took all the attention off the #1 horse who caused just as much trouble without the 9 horse being involved....well almost as much. Stewards usually don't make changes for infractions at gate break unless a horse falls down. That's the way it has always been. Why this is even a debate is ridiculous. Let us not forget Bayern in the BCC.
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The 1 came out maybe 15% of the amount the 9 came in.
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08-11-2022, 10:32 AM
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
The 1 came out maybe 15% of the amount the 9 came in.
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Fair enough. My point though is the 1 horse was never brought up in all of this absurdity. The 9 horse effected 6-7 horses and the 1 horse 2-3. FACT. Tomatoe Tomato lets call the whole thing off. LOL
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