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12-13-2018, 05:40 PM
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#8776
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
God grants gifts to me, including knowledge, wisdom and understanding.
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Why did God (assuming he exists) not grant similar gifts to me. Does he need non-believers?
And if God (same assumption) granted you knowledge, how do you know he was not lying?
Why was Jesus unaware of germs? God did not grant him that knowledge.
__________________
Sapere aude
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12-13-2018, 07:41 PM
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#8777
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
Why did God (assuming he exists) not grant similar gifts to me. Does he need non-believers?
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God needs nothing.
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And if God (same assumption) granted you knowledge, how do you know he was not lying?
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I know because I'm not the same person I was before he saved me.
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Why was Jesus unaware of germs? God did not grant him that knowledge.
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What makes you say that?
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Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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12-13-2018, 08:02 PM
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#8778
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
Seriously?
You are not a second class citizen but you can't have this, you cannot do that, and don't even think about telling men what to do. That's contradictory and if you cannot see that then you either lack the capacity or you are lying.
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You still haven't applied the Law to show us all how it's contradictory. And of course, you won't because you know you're lying. Either that or you don't know how to apply the Law like I can.
Are you remotely familiar with the U.S. Constitution? Are you aware that there are three distinct, separate branches of government and that those branches, nonetheless, are co-equal? And are you aware that each branch has its limitations or restrictions imposed upon it by the Law of the Land? According to you, this must mean that the branches contradict one another and cannot possibly be co-equal. But this is an absurd conclusion on the face of it; for entities can have different functions, and yet still be co-equal. "How can they be co-equal?", you ask. They are co-equal qualitatively. Co-equal in value. And this is so because both man and woman were created in the image and likeness of God.
May I be so bold as to suggest that this is exactly the case with men and women? They are co-equal in God's eyes, even though he has assigned different functions to them. The three persons of the Godhead are also co-equal, even though their functions differ.
Have nice night, Mr. Actor.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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12-13-2018, 10:58 PM
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#8779
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
What makes you say that?
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Mark 7:1 - 8
__________________
Sapere aude
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12-13-2018, 11:03 PM
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#8780
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
God needs nothing.
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Then why does he demand so much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
I know because I'm not the same person I was before he saved me.
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That does not address the question.
__________________
Sapere aude
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12-13-2018, 11:06 PM
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#8781
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
You still haven't applied the Law to show us all how it's contradictory.
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It is contradictory. You are probably the only one here who cannot see that.
__________________
Sapere aude
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12-14-2018, 01:14 AM
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#8782
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: St. Louis suburb
Posts: 1,761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
Mark 7:1 - 8
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I hope this is your interpretation, and not someone with letters behind their name in a position to instruct others. I can forgive your non-fluent approach to the Hebrew and Christian scriptures, since the presupposed goal of deconstructing biblical coherence is misguided from the start. Much better to come from a position of grasping generally agreed upon Christian understandings of scripture (e.g., through cross-referencing) in order to offer serious challenges. Yet that requires study--much easier to cite literal contradictions from a supposed dictating author rather than consider different secondary authors, theological emphasis, intended audience, contexts, genres, issues, topics addressed, geography, cultures, customs, contemporary political situations, as with any other historical literature...
https://books.google.com/books?id=sZ...rature&f=false
...Shakespeare--what a hack.
The washing of hands had nothing to do with hygiene. It was a symbol within the rite of purification of one's internal moral purity when approaching YHWH...(Ex 30:17-21)...
https://www.blueletterbible.org/rsv/exo/30/17/s_80017
... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual...cation#Judaism
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12-14-2018, 01:42 AM
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#8783
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnlgfnk
The washing of hands had nothing to do with hygiene.
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Possibly not but, given the many references to leprosy, germs were at work back then. Pity that God's messenger was not briefed.
The truth is that the human writer of this fiction was clueless, as was the entire world was back then.
__________________
Sapere aude
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12-14-2018, 01:53 AM
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#8784
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnlgfnk
I hope this is your interpretation, and not someone with letters behind their name ...
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I have letters behind my name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnlgfnk
Much better to come from a position of grasping generally agreed upon Christian understandings of scripture ...
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With over 30,000 different Protestant denominations how much "generally agreed on understanding" can there be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnlgfnk
.. much easier to cite literal contradictions ...
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Are you saying that scripture is not to be taken literally?
__________________
Sapere aude
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12-14-2018, 02:21 AM
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#8785
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: St. Louis suburb
Posts: 1,761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
Possibly not but, given the many references to leprosy, germs were at work back then. Pity that God's messenger was not briefed.
The truth is that the human writer of this fiction was clueless, as was the entire world was back then.
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Your specific point was addressed. Nice deflection. Maintain your thesis at all cost.
There are non-trivial difficulties in the Hebrew and Christian scriptures. They are not usually presented here, but rather softballs like tonight's edition.
The phrase is "hypostatic union". As God, Christ would have knowledge of all things. As man, he would have knowledge contemporary to 1st century Near Eastern culture. Both operating simultaneously at their highest powers.
It's not worth your time, but serious interlocutors should attempt to argue from an understanding of their opponent's position.
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12-14-2018, 02:40 AM
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#8786
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: St. Louis suburb
Posts: 1,761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
I have letters behind my name.
With over 30,000 different Protestant denominations how much "generally agreed on understanding" can there be?
Are you saying that scripture is not to be taken literally?
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My obvious implication was a university level knowledge of scripture. Your consistently hyper-literal interpretation of statements at times is baffling.
There's a basic agreement among the major strains of Christianity, but were I desiring a lengthy conversation (I already suggested to Showme that it's non-productive on the internet), then you are correct. I would stay within my own Catholicism. In that case, my first defense of the scriptural evidence for the dignity of women, for example, is Mary the mother of Christ.
I already sparred here regarding "literal" but to illustrate, "The Father is greater than I" and "The Father and I are one" is not a contradiction. Goes to that "hypostatic union" previously mentioned.
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12-14-2018, 08:36 AM
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#8787
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Smarty Pants
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Every Vote Counts
Posts: 3,160
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Some are really reaching here.
There is a place for you.
Salvation is the best choice.
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12-14-2018, 09:34 AM
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#8788
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 18,962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnlgfnk
I already suggested to Showme that it's non-productive on the internet
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Surely you're not suggesting that one can't learn from the written word, which is the main way we communicate on the internet?
I find internet discussions such as these informative.
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12-14-2018, 09:58 AM
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#8789
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
Then why does he demand so much?
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Because he loves mankind so much. And what he demands is for our own good, benefit and welfare.
You have at least on child, as I recall. As a father, did you never make any demands upon her?
Quote:
That does not address the question.
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Yes, it does. Jesus has transformed my life and is still transforming me by his Word and Holy Spirit, through the process of sanctification, as he has promised.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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12-14-2018, 10:11 AM
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#8790
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
Mark 7:1 - 8
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The passage interprets itself. Jesus rebuked the scribes and Pharisees for one of their man-made religious rituals of purification. The issue in the passage is not dirty hands, per se -- but ceremonially impure hands. What if Jesus' disciples' hands were clean enough to eat bread?
Do you ever eat out? Do you ever eat on the run? Maybe pop into a Starbucks or Dunkin' Donuts for a caffeine fix and a donut? Or have you ever pulled into a fast food drive-through to literally eat on the run in the car because you're hungry? Or maybe you've got the munchies while grocery shopping and you buy a bag or box of your favorite junk food to eat on the way. The point to all this is: Do you Mr. Germaphobe always wash your hands before you eat? If not, does this mark you as being germ-ignorant?
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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