View Poll Results: Who wins HOY? Accelerate or Justify?
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Accelerate wins HOY
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119 |
42.35% |
Justify wins HOY
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162 |
57.65% |
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12-21-2018, 09:35 PM
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#331
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
I gave you examples of your cherry picking. You deliberately characterized Coty of Light, a VERY good jorse, in the worst possible light.
Here's another example- you give Accelerate no credit for beating Catholic Boy, saying he didn't run his best race.
But you never bother to analyze if anyone facing Justify ran THEIR best race. You just immediately declaim them a bunch of top horses with their graded stakes placing.
You are typing a lot of text to conceal some very dishonest argumentation.
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This is like a fight where each round begins with one fighter throwing a weak left, and then receives a barrages of blows that knock him to the ground, yet somehow he continues into the ring round after round with more of the same weak crap....only to get pummeled again.
You're like the Rasputin of internet posters.
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12-21-2018, 09:39 PM
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#332
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Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
You are typing a lot of text to conceal some very dishonest argumentation.
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Spalding is kicking the living horse-crap out of you, and you want MORE??
You're one stubborn muleheaded masochist, Dilan....But by all means, please continue....
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12-21-2018, 10:19 PM
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#333
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Baystater
Posts: 3,434
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Accelerate ran three of the five fastest Beyers all year. Justify's Preakness Beyer was the lowest in 25 prior runnings.
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12-21-2018, 10:50 PM
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#334
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the little guy
This is like a fight where each round begins with one fighter throwing a weak left, and then receives a barrages of blows that knock him to the ground, yet somehow he continues into the ring round after round with more of the same weak crap....only to get pummeled again.
You're like the Rasputin of internet posters.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
But you never bother to analyze if anyone facing Justify ran THEIR best race. You just immediately declaim them a bunch of top horses with their graded stakes placing.
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Good Magic ran great. He won a G1 immediately before and immediately after the Derby and Preakness. No reasonable person would assume he was off form and didn't run his best in the TC races. He just got beat by a better horse.
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12-21-2018, 11:05 PM
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#335
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Just Deplorable
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lebanon, Ohio
Posts: 8,034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
How come you get to argue that Accelerate's rivals were supposedly not 100 percent but it is assumed every Justify rival, like Good Magic, was in tip top form when he beat them?
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Here's where you ought to just pack it in and move on....and I was going to comment but passed when Spalding in his epic post 309 wrote, "They came from all corners, many with credentials that put them in the frame as contenders, and got run off their feet by a preternatural talent that was confirmed three times over." And there's a Lukas quote somewhere in here about the TC being fixed events on the schedule that doesn't apply to older horses' schedules.
It's not simply a "who did he beat" question. There are 300-400 or more nominations targeting these events every year. It's a winnowing out process that culminates at distinct points, so it is completely rational to assume that Justify was up against the best efforts of his opponents at those three times. So in a sense he beat 'em all. No one enters the Belmont with a runner that was sharp at 2, tailed off a bit through the winter, and just might be cycling back up at the right time, like older graded stakes horses can do. You can't maintain any cred around here is you are going to contend that Justify just happened to catch all those others at the right time in their own individual career arcs.
But I'm sure you'll get the last word in.
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12-21-2018, 11:10 PM
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#336
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
I gave you examples of your cherry picking. You deliberately characterized Coty of Light, a VERY good jorse, in the worst possible light.
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How? By saying his campaign (and career) have been predominated by one-turn races? I rattled off 3 or 4 posts from other threads where I characterized him as a talented Grade 1 winner...and that's the "worst possible light"?
The Oaklawn Handicap was indeed City of Light's first career attempt in a two-turn race and he beat the horse you say should be Horse of the Year.
That reflects poorly on Accelerate, not City of Light...
Quote:
Here's another example- you give Accelerate no credit for beating Catholic Boy, saying he didn't run his best race.
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Fair enough. We established earlier when discussing 1978 that you do not find it significant that Affirmed's saddle slipped in the Jockey Club Gold Cup. So why would a lacerated ankle mean anything to Catholic Boy's performance...especially since it happened when getting body slammed a couple of strides out of the gate?
GMB earlier in this thread mentioned that Cigar "soundly" defeated Holy Bull (essentially because Holy was decidedly "unsound" in the middle of the race). I took the post to be facetious. I'm scared to ask you if you took the post at face value...
Quote:
But you never bother to analyze if anyone facing Justify ran THEIR best race. You just immediately declaim them a bunch of top horses with their graded stakes placing.
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Why would I need to? You at no point have granted even the slightest bit of ability to any of the 3yo crop. You have repeatedly referred to them as "mediocrities" and the like while dismissing the Triple Crown races as "restricted".
But now you want me to mine some excuses for why his rivals couldn't get to him despite the gut-busting pace scenarios he was facing (never mind the foundation/experience he was conceding)? Now all of a sudden you're questioning Justify's dominance of the 3yo crop?
I guess my prediction that you were soon to argue that Catholic Boy should be champion 3yo is not far off the horizon...
Quote:
You are typing a lot of text to conceal some very dishonest argumentation.
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As you said yourself earlier, what I am posting is "literally true" but because it doesn't jive with your nonsensical universe where all 3yo crops suck but the older horse division (which is derived from said 3yo crops) is perennially top-notch, I must still somehow be lying.
Maybe you should take a break from all this nauseous oppression and inject some light-hearted, sophomoric (no pun intended) entertainment back into your life. I hear Netflix has a new stand-up special, the Existential Comedy Tour, starring Albert Camus, Franz Kafka, and Jean Paul Sartre...
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12-22-2018, 12:14 AM
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#337
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spalding No!
Maybe you should take a break from all this nauseous oppression and inject some light-hearted, sophomoric (no pun intended) entertainment back into your life. I hear Netflix has a new stand-up special, the Existential Comedy Tour, starring Albert Camus, Franz Kafka, and Jean Paul Sartre...
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Amidst the unending dross of internet postings emerges pure genius.
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12-22-2018, 01:26 AM
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#338
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 11,474
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I've changed my mind.
The voting merely states a horse has to run in the states a single time.
Enable is my vote.
That was the best horse that ran in our country this year.
And if you really want to get technical about it, Gun Runner did win the Pegasus in rather handy fashion 12 months ago.
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12-23-2018, 02:50 AM
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#339
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spalding No!
He beat Mendelssohn and Lone Sailor by less than 5 lengths. How far back were these in the Kentucky Derby?
You can say McKinzie was beaten on the square, too, but I posted multiple times here during the winter/spring that McKinzie was at best a miler, never mind that he was only making his 2nd start off a 6-month break in the BC Classic.
If you are trying to include the clobbered and injured Catholic Boy or the Euro experiment Roaring Lion than you simply are pulling everyone's leg.
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And Mendelssohn destroyed Good Magic, Tenfold, Hofburg, Vino Rosso, Gronkowski, and bested that dogged old Bravazo. And had they snuck Audible into the BCC, Mendelssohn would have crushed him too. So?
People are acting like you are giving some really wicked comebacks, but basically, they just agree with you (though you might all actually just be socks for CJ, so who knows?).
From what I've heard, Justify already has the votes. Its done. Accelerate looked to have them after the BCC, then the wine and dine offensive started and, now it is done for real, and Justify has them. Hopefully Accelerate wins the Pegasus, then when he loses HOY, he makes people like you look like horses asses.
None of Justify's crop has achieved anything of note, and since all of the "best" are retired right along with him, they never will. If you are impressed with the 2018 3yos, more power to you.
I voted for Gun Runner for moment of the year. In the US he was the only top race horse we had this year (Enable doesn't count). His Pegasus effort was better and harder than all 3 of Justify's TC races. Crosswinds were 20mph that day, and he took them full on from the half. Crazy hard effort. And he'd pretty much raced non-stop for 2 years. Against much harder competition.
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12-23-2018, 07:55 AM
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#340
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: central fla.
Posts: 4,874
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Those who think that Justify was the better horse and deserves horse of the year...well not going to dabate/argue with you...am going to write...
THANK YOU for being in THE pools...
It's why horse racing exists...
One final note...am sure THAT some of you have TAKEN my money in THE past....and will again in the future...
__________________
got handed a lemon...make lemonade....add sugar or brown sugar or stevia or my personal favorite....miracle fruit....google it...thank me later...
Last edited by sammy the sage; 12-23-2018 at 07:59 AM.
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12-23-2018, 10:13 AM
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#341
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papillon
From what I've heard, Justify already has the votes. Its done.
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There are still 14 hours left today, but this one will be tough to beat.
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12-23-2018, 11:10 AM
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#342
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the little guy
There are still 14 hours left today, but this one will be tough to beat.
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Oh, it can be done, for sure.
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12-23-2018, 11:12 AM
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#343
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy the sage
Those who think that Justify was the better horse and deserves horse of the year...well not going to dabate/argue with you...am going to write...
THANK YOU for being in THE pools...
It's why horse racing exists...
One final note...am sure THAT some of you have TAKEN my money in THE past....and will again in the future...
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You think somehow Horse of the Year voting and betting are equated? Wow.
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12-23-2018, 11:27 AM
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#344
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
You think somehow Horse of the Year voting and betting are equated? Wow.
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Heck, people in this thread are confused with who will beat who as a factor in the voting, its not.
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12-23-2018, 11:37 AM
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#345
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papillon
And Mendelssohn destroyed Good Magic, Tenfold, Hofburg, Vino Rosso, Gronkowski, and bested that dogged old Bravazo. And had they snuck Audible into the BCC, Mendelssohn would have crushed him too. So?
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The only time Hofburg was in a race with Mendelssohn, he finished over 60 lengths in front of him (and about 9 lengths behind Justify).
Quote:
People are acting like you are giving some really wicked comebacks, but basically, they just agree with you (though you might all actually just be socks for CJ, so who knows?).
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Socks for CJ? What does that make you?
The ladies underwear for LoneF?
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