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Old 10-11-2021, 05:09 AM   #1
TJDave
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Free will is an illusion

Lex Fridman and Sam Harris discuss why free will is an Illusion.

My head hurts.


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Old 10-11-2021, 05:20 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by TJDave View Post
Lex Fridman and Sam Harris discuss why free will is an Illusion.

My head hurts.


https://youtu.be/SYq724zHUTw
Apparently it is now. Your freedoms are just an illusion now too.

Or hadn't you noticed.
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Old 10-11-2021, 08:03 AM   #3
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Atheists have objections to or outright denial of free will. And it's funny because if you throw out free will, it’s like you and I can’t criticize each other. If I make fun of your post, you make fun of my posts, everything has to be the way it is.
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Old 10-11-2021, 09:29 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by TJDave View Post
Lex Fridman and Sam Harris discuss why free will is an Illusion.

My head hurts.


https://youtu.be/SYq724zHUTw
I just freely chose to shut this boring, monotone, monotonous speaker off before he puts me into a deep sleep at my desk.
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Old 10-11-2021, 01:59 PM   #5
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I just freely chose to shut this boring, monotone, monotonous speaker off before he puts me into a deep sleep at my desk.
I like them both.

I find neither boring.
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Old 10-11-2021, 02:14 PM   #6
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If I choose to ignore the above video...isn't this a testament to my "free will"?
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Old 10-11-2021, 02:46 PM   #7
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I like them both.

I find neither boring.
I suppose I found his argument so boring because his premise to be self-defeating (i.e. self-contradictory), so it doesn't take long after that for me to lose interest.
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Old 10-11-2021, 02:48 PM   #8
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If I choose to ignore the above video...isn't this a testament to my "free will"?
Yup. See also my reply to PA for why this is true.
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Old 10-11-2021, 03:06 PM   #9
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The future has already happened. We just don't know it. There is no past present or future. Existence is eternal, like a huge pop up book. All exists simultaneously. Our consciousness can only experience parts of the pop up book. It cannot see the entirety of the pop up book (existence).

When people experience NDE's they are given life reviews. When they see what they did in the past, it is not like they are watching an old movie of themselves. They actually experience that "past" event in the present complete with all the bells and whistles of what transpired. Even though they know what will transpire,those past experience remains intact.

How do you think fortune tellers can tell the future unless it has already happened.

I used to have occasional dreams of the results of races,seeing the winning number at the finish line. Once I saw the exacta and bet it in a 12 horse field. I told all my cronies before the race but they all dismissed it. I only had a handful of these dreams but they were always true. How is that possible unless the races were already run?

I was once prompted by a feeling to play the lottery. I needed 5 numbers plus the bonus number. I immediately knew 3 of the numbers. They were the month and day I was born. Me and my son were born on the same day at the same time. The third number was the day of the month my daughter was born.

Turns out I was right. What are the odds of me knowing the first 3 numbers of the lottery immediately? How is that possible unless those lottery numbers were already picked.
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Old 10-11-2021, 03:41 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Light View Post
The future has already happened. We just don't know it. There is no past present or future. Existence is eternal, like a huge pop up book. All exists simultaneously. Our consciousness can only experience parts of the pop up book. It cannot see the entirety of the pop up book (existence).

When people experience NDE's they are given life reviews. When they see what they did in the past, it is not like they are watching an old movie of themselves. They actually experience that "past" event in the present complete with all the bells and whistles of what transpired. Even though they know what will transpire,those past experience remains intact.

How do you think fortune tellers can tell the future unless it has already happened.

I used to have occasional dreams of the results of races,seeing the winning number at the finish line. Once I saw the exacta and bet it in a 12 horse field. I told all my cronies before the race but they all dismissed it. I only had a handful of these dreams but they were always true. How is that possible unless the races were already run?

I was once prompted by a feeling to play the lottery. I needed 5 numbers plus the bonus number. I immediately knew 3 of the numbers. They were the month and day I was born. Me and my son were born on the same day at the same time. The third number was the day of the month my daughter was born.

Turns out I was right. What are the odds of me knowing the first 3 numbers of the lottery immediately? How is that possible unless those lottery numbers were already picked.
If the lottery numbers were already picked...what stopped you from knowing the other three?
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Old 10-11-2021, 03:47 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Light View Post
The future has already happened. We just don't know it. There is no past present or future. Existence is eternal, like a huge pop up book. All exists simultaneously. Our consciousness can only experience parts of the pop up book. It cannot see the entirety of the pop up book (existence).

When people experience NDE's they are given life reviews. When they see what they did in the past, it is not like they are watching an old movie of themselves. They actually experience that "past" event in the present complete with all the bells and whistles of what transpired. Even though they know what will transpire,those past experience remains intact.

How do you think fortune tellers can tell the future unless it has already happened.

I used to have occasional dreams of the results of races,seeing the winning number at the finish line. Once I saw the exacta and bet it in a 12 horse field. I told all my cronies before the race but they all dismissed it. I only had a handful of these dreams but they were always true. How is that possible unless the races were already run?

I was once prompted by a feeling to play the lottery. I needed 5 numbers plus the bonus number. I immediately knew 3 of the numbers. They were the month and day I was born. Me and my son were born on the same day at the same time. The third number was the day of the month my daughter was born.

Turns out I was right. What are the odds of me knowing the first 3 numbers of the lottery immediately? How is that possible unless those lottery numbers were already picked.
What does this have to do with the existence or not of free will?
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Old 10-11-2021, 05:47 PM   #12
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If the lottery numbers were already picked...what stopped you from knowing the other three?
The 3 numbers I knew were instant. They all had to do with me. The other 3 numbers also had to do with me. But these other 3 required some thought.

The fourth number turned out to be my age at the time. The fifth and Bonus numbers were the same. The number 4 which are the number of people in my family.

I was given a huge sign of the number 4 being the one of the numbers and the bonus number. But I didn't pay attention because I didn't believe it. Its a long story.

This was clearly a gift from beyond. But I lacked faith that God would give me millions of dollars. I chalked it up to my imagination and since I was busy in my auto repair business, passed. When I saw the lottery draw and the first 3 numbers were in there, I was depressed for 2 weeks. I now knew it was real. I wasn't depressed because of losing the $50M I would have won. But because I had failed on a spiritual level despite believing in spirits. I felt bad for letting the spirits down who were trying to help me.

What got me out of the depression was realizing,it was meant to be just as it unfolded. I wasn't ready.
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Old 10-11-2021, 05:50 PM   #13
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What does this have to do with the existence or not of free will?
It's obvious, isn't it. Since all things have already happened, your "free will" decision has already been exercised.
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Old 10-11-2021, 06:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
The future has already happened. We just don't know it. There is no past present or future. Existence is eternal, like a huge pop up book. All exists simultaneously. Our consciousness can only experience parts of the pop up book. It cannot see the entirety of the pop up book (existence).

When people experience NDE's they are given life reviews. When they see what they did in the past, it is not like they are watching an old movie of themselves. They actually experience that "past" event in the present complete with all the bells and whistles of what transpired. Even though they know what will transpire,those past experience remains intact.

How do you think fortune tellers can tell the future unless it has already happened.

I used to have occasional dreams of the results of races,seeing the winning number at the finish line. Once I saw the exacta and bet it in a 12 horse field. I told all my cronies before the race but they all dismissed it. I only had a handful of these dreams but they were always true. How is that possible unless the races were already run?

I was once prompted by a feeling to play the lottery. I needed 5 numbers plus the bonus number. I immediately knew 3 of the numbers. They were the month and day I was born. Me and my son were born on the same day at the same time. The third number was the day of the month my daughter was born.

Turns out I was right. What are the odds of me knowing the first 3 numbers of the lottery immediately? How is that possible unless those lottery numbers were already picked.

One of the main beliefs of Traditional Christianity is that only God can actually reveal to FUTURE to certain prophets, who work through Him, in order to achieve the goals he has designed.
While it is natural to be impressed by seemingly supernatural events, it is not right to jump to conclusions and declare the event "that the future has already happened" or even to be straight from heaven. My response to supernatural events/dreams is to tread the tightrope between gullibility and disbelief—to be both believing and skeptical.
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Old 10-11-2021, 07:13 PM   #15
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It's obvious, isn't it. Since all things have already happened, your "free will" decision has already been exercised.
By whom? Can't be us because we're created beings and make all our choices in Time. We're not immortal.

1 Tim 6:15-16
15 which He will bring about at the proper time — He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords; 16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.
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