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Old 10-25-2020, 10:29 AM   #31
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Quote:
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What, now you don't want to reward STAMINA?


I do, but not by stretching out high priced claimers.
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Old 10-31-2020, 01:00 PM   #32
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.... IMO, the horse that was well beaten in the Preakness was not the same horse we saw earlier and this is not a sign of confidence. We'll see how he works going into the race.
Had a bullet on 10/22 (1/57). The case can be made that he didn't like the Pimlico track. Had his best race beyerwise at Keenland. You get much better value for horses coming off a loss.

What if he drifts up to 6/1?


hhhhmmmmm.
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Old 10-31-2020, 01:18 PM   #33
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The suddenly new money Knicks Go appears in the Dirt Mile for Brad "Ben Jones had nothing on me" Cox.
Suspect he'll be the ultimate wiseguy dude come BC Saturday.
Looks like the race will be loaded with speed. Of his three (of 16 races) wins, he hasn't passed anyone in the stretch. He'll have to beat Vekoma and Complexity to the lead, and then hold on horses like Art Collector and Owendale, etc.
10-1 maybe, but will probably be lower than that.
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Old 10-31-2020, 01:25 PM   #34
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I think Vekoma is running in the Sprint.
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Old 10-31-2020, 03:03 PM   #35
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The suddenly new money Knicks Go appears in the Dirt Mile for Brad "Ben Jones had nothing on me" Cox.
Suspect he'll be the ultimate wiseguy dude come BC Saturday.
I don't care how fast his speed figures are, how easily he won, who trains him, how well he's working, who he beat by how much etc... I'm tossing any horse with Knicks in his name. I've been a Knicks fan since Reed and Frazier. I've suffered enough since those childhood victories.
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Old 11-03-2020, 12:13 PM   #36
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I think the BC Mile still deserves Grade 1 status.
I don't necessarily disagree, generally speaking, but the quality of this year's field does not support the G1 rating. IMO.
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Old 11-03-2020, 12:14 PM   #37
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I don't necessarily disagree, generally speaking, but the quality of this year's field does not support the G1 rating. IMO.
but there are 14 AE's I thought!
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Old 11-03-2020, 12:31 PM   #38
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I don't necessarily disagree, generally speaking, but the quality of this year's field does not support the G1 rating. IMO.
You could make a better case if Vekoma went in the Mile.
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Old 11-03-2020, 01:40 PM   #39
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I don't necessarily disagree, generally speaking, but the quality of this year's field does not support the G1 rating. IMO.
The same can be said for several of this year's G1s, for older horses (e.g., JCGC field of five with three of them never winning a graded stakes.)
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Old 11-04-2020, 09:11 AM   #40
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You could make a better case if Vekoma went in the Mile.
Yes, that would add another G1 winner to the field. As it stands only 2 G1 winners in the race and one of them has a sole G1 from more than 2 years ago.


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The same can be said for several of this year's G1s, for older horses (e.g., JCGC field of five with three of them never winning a graded stakes.)
True, however for a year-end Championship the 2020 field is lacking imo. Doesn't mean it's not a contentious field and one that will be fun to analyze, but the quality seems lower than in past years.
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Old 11-04-2020, 10:29 AM   #41
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Yes, that would add another G1 winner to the field. As it stands only 2 G1 winners in the race and one of them has a sole G1 from more than 2 years ago.
I completely agree with you, but there are 3 Grade 1 winners in the field, 2 of whom accomplished the feat as 2yos (Knicks Go and Complexity), neither of whom trained on as 3yos (though they've come back from the dead this year).

That hair splitting doesn't coverup the fact that the race is made up of a Triple Crown also-ran, a couple of ex-claimers, a bevy of Grade 3 horses, a Grade 2 turf horse, a Japanese maiden winner, a Preakness winner who is 1 for 7 since that win and who is basically ducking the turf Mile.

The best horse in there, Complexity, had the run of the race last out, beating a horse (Code of Honor) whose connections opted out of the BC, and is in uncharted territory making his 4th consecutive start without a layoff and trying to maintain top form at the same time. Traded decisions with listed stakes horse Win Win Win (another Triple Crown also-ran) earlier this year.

The honorary 9th undercard race at the 2020 Breeders' Cup. Should be renamed the American Pharoah or the Liam's Map...or better yet the Lea or the Effinex...
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Old 11-04-2020, 10:40 AM   #42
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I completely agree with you, but there are 3 Grade 1 winners in the field, 2 of whom accomplished the feat as 2yos (Knicks Go and Complexity), neither of whom trained on as 3yos (though they've come back from the dead this year).

Ah, thank you for the correction. I forgot Knicks Go (ironically since he's got a solid record at this track incl. that G1).
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Old 11-04-2020, 11:25 AM   #43
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I know technically a Grade 1 is a Grade 1 and so on, but Grade 1 races for 2yos and even early year 3yos are not legitimate Grade 1 races.

They were stronger years ago when horses ran more often and got seasoned sooner, but these days a lot of them are more like strong NW1 and NW2 ALW races. The races slowly get stronger over time as some of the horses develop and the better ones separate themselves by winning more and tougher races. Eventually a few of them mature themselves into legitimate Grade 1 horses.

Knicks Go has always been a very fast horse. Last year he drew into a few races loaded with speed that made things tough on him. IMO, he was better than he looks on paper. He's probably a new and improved horse under Cox (ahem), but he's not a Grade 1 winner no matter what they call it.
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Old 11-04-2020, 11:48 AM   #44
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These days a lot of Grade 1 races for older horses (especially males) are made up of horses that have never won anything above Grade 2 or Grade 3 status, a bogus Grade 1 at 2, or that have been competitive in a legitimate Grade 1 race for older here or there.

Years ago Grade 1 races often had horses in them that had already won Grade 1 races, sometimes more than one multiple Grade 1 winner etc.. They were way deeper and stronger races.

Races like that are what I call Grade 1+ races now.
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Old 11-04-2020, 01:03 PM   #45
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P# Horse Jockey Trainer M/L
1-Art Collector B J Hernandez, Jr. T Drury, Jr. 6/1
2-Sharp Samurai I Ortiz, Jr. M Glatt 15/1
3-Silver Dust A Beschizza W B Calhoun 30/1
4-War of Will T Gaffalione M E Casse 10/1
5-Knicks Go J Rosario B H Cox 7/2
6-Mr. Money G Saez W B Calhoun 20/1
7-Rushie J Castellano M W McCarthy 20/1
8-Pirate's Punch J A Vargas, Jr. G T Forster 20/1
9-Mr Freeze M Franco D L Romans 6/1
10-Complexity J L Ortiz C C Brown 2/1
11-Jesus' Team L Saez J F D'Angelo 30/1
12-Owendale F Geroux B H Cox 8/1
13-Pingxiang F Prat H Mori 30/1

Looks like I got my 6/1 on Art Collector! at least on the ML. But I think he'll be more like 9/5.

Knicks Go as the 2nd choice? Ok, he could be the next Willis Reed or Earl the Pearl. The book does say that on turf, class is king, on dirt speed is king, but throw out is 2-yr-old campaign and he's not fared very well in graded stakes. He'll need an uncontested lead and that ain't happening.
Now give me 12-1 and I'm interested.
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