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Old 12-07-2018, 03:42 PM   #46
onefast99
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Originally Posted by jay68802 View Post
I think it is strange that it is like this. I understand why stewards are not allowed to wager, but why doesn't the same logic apply to owners, trainers, and jockeys?
An trainer and owner can bet, nothing wrong with that. I also see where an owner or two may buy a win ticket for a jockey or a trainer. A steward shouldnt be able to bet he can change the dynamics of the race by making a call based on an inquiry or an objection. A jockey can as well but it is tough to ascertain if the jockey has actually held a horse back and if they are guilty of that they are fined and or suspended.
We will see a lot more of these threads as sports wagering becomes legal nationwide and people look at the integrity of games and sporting events.
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Old 12-07-2018, 03:44 PM   #47
v j stauffer
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Here's what I'm thinking of doing when your track, Oaklawn, opens it's meet....Since Oaklawn seems to always have full fields, it would seem that this situation might happen there more than any other track and is definitely worth charting, if it's doable....Something to keep in mind.
A super star at Oaklawn or any other meeting would be VERY rare. It's only assigned in very unusual instances. Something like racing office error. Or some sort of a computer glitch.

They could go years without ever having one horse assigned a Super Star.

As far as horses that may have been excluded and now have a better date or star. That info is kept in the racing office.

If you want to know if a race over filled. Look at the numbers at the bottom of each race on the overnight.

It will look one of three ways.

------------------------------------------10-----------------------------------------

Means there were 10 entered. Which you can obviously see.

---------------------------------12 & 4AE------------------------------------------

Means, Well you know what that means.


When horses never saw the light of day it will look like this.

---------------------------------12 & 4AE & 8EX-----------------------------------

The excluded horses are named out loud at the draw. Some sharp agents will quickly jot down their names.

If you ever want to know what's really going on at any track. No matter the subject. Make friends with an agent. They can be a fountain of information.
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Old 12-07-2018, 05:37 PM   #48
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If you ever want to know what's really going on at any track. No matter the subject. Make friends with an agent. They can be a fountain of information.
Second that. Imo, really good advice.


-jp

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Old 12-07-2018, 08:38 PM   #49
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Good stuff....Never heard of the term "super star" when given entry preference before....Is that a retro term or is it still used in Race Sec Office?
Overriding preference (that trumps anything) is called a "Z" date at Mountaineer. Z dates are allotted only in special circumstances unrelated to a preference system. Runners in-to-go on cancelled cards, for instance, get z dates, as do horses excluded due to office mistakes.

Only a preference clause written into the header supersedes the z.

Pertaining to date systems,-and they do vary, sometimes considerably, from track to track-I'm not a fan of "stars." But I'll be typing all night if I start expounding on that topic-or date systems in general. And I've designed several.

Last edited by mountainman; 12-07-2018 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:00 PM   #50
v j stauffer
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Overriding preference (that trumps anything) is called a "Z" date at Mountaineer. Z dates are allotted only in special circumstances unrelated to a preference system. Runners in-to-go on cancelled cards, for instance, get z dates, as do horses excluded due to office mistakes.

Only a preference clause written into the header supersedes the z.

Pertaining to date systems,-and they do vary, sometimes considerably, from track to track-I'm not a fan of "stars." But I'll be typing all night if I start expounding on that topic-or date systems in general. And I've designed several.
Correct me if I'm wrong Mark but "Stars" are pretty much antiquated these days?
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:37 PM   #51
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Correct me if I'm wrong Mark but "Stars" are pretty much antiquated these days?
Hi Vic...Correct. The Old School star system remains mainly at places that have tweaked and inflated it into a 40-page Frankenstein of regulations and caveats. The objective in those cases is to ensure that industrious connections can't acquire stars by making bad-faith entries in over-filled spots.


You could get a migraine just reading some of these date systems.

Happy holidays, pal.
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:33 AM   #52
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Hi Vic...Correct. The Old School star system remains mainly at places that have tweaked and inflated it into a 40-page Frankenstein of regulations and caveats. The objective in those cases is to ensure that industrious connections can't acquire stars by making bad-faith entries in over-filled spots.


You could get a migraine just reading some of these date systems.

Happy holidays, pal.
You too my friend!
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Old 12-08-2018, 02:40 AM   #53
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Absolutely!. It's on like donkey kong!
and...
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Old 12-08-2018, 05:55 PM   #54
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I've never witnessed a steward bet but I've been "upstairs" at numerous race tracks where I observed operational self-serve tote machines, I presume located there for its intended purpose.
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:38 AM   #55
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I've never witnessed a steward bet but I've been "upstairs" at numerous race tracks where I observed operational self-serve tote machines, I presume located there for its intended purpose.
Those machines are for members of the media.
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Old 12-09-2018, 08:24 AM   #56
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Promise ya'll....they're "BEARDS" available at EVERY race track....
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Old 12-09-2018, 03:17 PM   #57
v j stauffer
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Promise ya'll....they're "BEARDS" available at EVERY race track....
Don't understand. The machines are beards? The stewards are using beards to bet for them?

I was licensed as a Steward for about 8 years. There's a difference between being licensed and assigned.

Either way It was made clear that wagering of any kind. Other tracks, March Madness pools, Poker was not allowed.

I watched closely to see if there was any form of gambling at my tracks I saw a placing judge making bets at the self-serve terminal about an hour and a half before the races started. I don't know the size of the wagers. Or what track he was playing. I did see him at the machine more than once. He didn't seem comfortable with me walking by but didn't stop the wagering.

Only one time did I see ANYTHING involving an assigned Steward. On Kentucky Derby day. He was part of a Kentucky Derby Pool. One of those where they put 20 names on a piece of paper. Everybody puts up $5.00 and it's a blind draw.

He showed me his slip of paper and the horse we was rooting for. I advised him to not show it to anyone else. And give his ticket away to someone else in the press box. I said he had a financial interest in the running of a horse race and that wasn't good. Sure it was benign and a harmless Derby pool. But a hater could try to turn it around. He agreed and decided not to take a chance.

Other than those instances I have NEVER seen any Stewards at any track, whether I was the announcer or Steward, make wagers.
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:03 PM   #58
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I’d like to know if the stewards know which horses are alive for the rainbow jackpot in the last leg. Now I know some here insist that it doesn’t profit the stewards one nickel if someone hits the rainbow, but they are employees (or contractors) of the track, and the track does care. Hey, everyone wants to keep their boss happy.
Anyone?
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:31 PM   #59
v j stauffer
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I’d like to know if the stewards know which horses are alive for the rainbow jackpot in the last leg. Now I know some here insist that it doesn’t profit the stewards one nickel if someone hits the rainbow, but they are employees (or contractors) of the track, and the track does care. Hey, everyone wants to keep their boss happy.
Anyone?
In California the Stewards are paid by the CHRB. California Horse Racing Board. They have no interest in a track's business model. They often make decisions the individual tracks do not agree with or like. Like calling a race no contest for example. When that occurs the track must refund all wagers. Certainly not in the best interest of the association.

There was one steward I worked with that would ask me at the beginning of the day if there was a carry over. I think it was just a curiosity thing. As far as who was alive going into the last race. They have TV monitors in the Stewards stand so the info is available. I never had one ask ME which numbers were alive.

When people say the Stewards manipulate the results to foster continued carry overs. Like the double DQ at Churchill the other day. It makes no sense to me. Before they had the DQ's three horses had to bounce off each other in a well choreographed incident. Did the Stewards and track set that up too?

When I was a Steward. My main focus was that "everyone" bettors, horsemen, race tracks were held to the rules of racing. That all were allowed to participate on a level playing field.

I VERY strongly believe the chance a racetrack would tell the Stewards what to do in an inquiry to further a carryover is extremely unlikely.

NO COLLUSION!
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Old 12-12-2018, 09:33 PM   #60
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Don't understand. The machines are beards? The stewards are using beards to bet for them?

I was licensed as a Steward for about 8 years. There's a difference between being licensed and assigned.

Either way It was made clear that wagering of any kind. Other tracks, March Madness pools, Poker was not allowed.

I watched closely to see if there was any form of gambling at my tracks I saw a placing judge making bets at the self-serve terminal about an hour and a half before the races started. I don't know the size of the wagers. Or what track he was playing. I did see him at the machine more than once. He didn't seem comfortable with me walking by but didn't stop the wagering.

Only one time did I see ANYTHING involving an assigned Steward. On Kentucky Derby day. He was part of a Kentucky Derby Pool. One of those where they put 20 names on a piece of paper. Everybody puts up $5.00 and it's a blind draw.

He showed me his slip of paper and the horse we was rooting for. I advised him to not show it to anyone else. And give his ticket away to someone else in the press box. I said he had a financial interest in the running of a horse race and that wasn't good. Sure it was benign and a harmless Derby pool. But a hater could try to turn it around. He agreed and decided not to take a chance.

Other than those instances I have NEVER seen any Stewards at any track, whether I was the announcer or Steward, make wagers.
“Beards” are people that bet for an individual person so they remain anonymous to the betting public. Jockeys , owners, trainers and stewards have all used “ beards “ at one time or another. You can pretend like this business is squeaky clean but just do a simple google search and see the numerous articles about the shady side of things. I can only imagine what went on prior to the Internet.
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