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10-05-2023, 05:53 AM
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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10-05-2023, 09:55 AM
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#47
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
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This is what's called a hidden nose dead heat. Mirror images would look very much the same as the photo you see.
Steward typically will call this a dead heat because there's no clear evidence that it wasn't.
I don't see the rail so IMO there's a likely hood there was in fact a mirror but these three were well into the middle of the track.
I suppose I could check that on the replay but I don't feel like tracking it down.
Regardless of that. Hidden nose dead heats are not uncommon. You can't take a picture of something you can't see.
__________________
"Just because she's a hitter and a thief doesn't mean she's not a good woman in all the other places" Mayrose Prizzi
Last edited by v j stauffer; 10-05-2023 at 10:01 AM.
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10-05-2023, 12:09 PM
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#48
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,830
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Was this really necessary? I'm putting it here because it feels like a huge overreaction by the steward.
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10-05-2023, 02:07 PM
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: JCapper Platinum: Kind of like Deep Blue... but for horses.
Posts: 5,291
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I cringe every time this happens.
My understanding is there's a rule that says mistakenly scratched horses run for purse money only (to protect players who would otherwise be tricked into thinking the horse is scratched and then bet accordingly.)
-jp
.
__________________
Team JCapper: 2011 PAIHL Regular Season ROI Leader after 15 weeks
www.JCapper.com
Last edited by Jeff P; 10-05-2023 at 02:09 PM.
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10-06-2023, 04:07 AM
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 292
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If I understand the whole Category 1/Category 2 thing correctly, I prefer Category 2. The rule is the rule is the rule, regardless of how it would affect any other horse's placing. First, having stewards make assumptions about where another horse is going to end up placing can get pretty subjective. Second, if the rules are at least partially for safety on the track for horses and jockeys, then an infringement is bad whether it affects another horse's placing or not as it has raised the risk level for the horses and the jockeys on the track. Third, a strict adherence to the rules as written may help "shy" stewards enforce adherence on high profile bad actors like Irad Ortiz, among others.
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10-06-2023, 06:26 AM
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sysonby
If I understand the whole Category 1/Category 2 thing correctly, I prefer Category 2. The rule is the rule is the rule, regardless of how it would affect any other horse's placing. First, having stewards make assumptions about where another horse is going to end up placing can get pretty subjective. Second, if the rules are at least partially for safety on the track for horses and jockeys, then an infringement is bad whether it affects another horse's placing or not as it has raised the risk level for the horses and the jockeys on the track. Third, a strict adherence to the rules as written may help "shy" stewards enforce adherence on high profile bad actors like Irad Ortiz, among others.
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Changing rules won't change inconsistent/corrupt Stewards. The current rule is fine IMO with one addition it could be better. Add a degree of certainty of 90% that a horse was cost a placing. Too often a horse that was interfered with that had a very low chance of winning without interference is put up IMO. And I'd rather have more aggressive riding to win than less.
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10-06-2023, 11:29 AM
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
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It occasionally happens. It's usually human error. I was once a Steward at Los Alamitos and it happened with a horse owned by the man who owns the track Dr. Edward Allred. He was pissed and we heard about it big time. His horse was going to be the favorite therefore bringing in betting and generating commissions and I'm sure he wanted to bet himself.
The problem is in this day and age when people can make bets online and at brick and mortar simulcast sites. Many place their bets many hours before the event.
Imagine the shit storm if someone bet a race thinking a horse was scratched only to tune in later to see that that runner beat him?
This is the ultimate example of you can't put the toothpaste back into the tube.
It's a total screwup and people have to be held responsible be it the Stewards, Racing Office and or Tote technicians.
But once a horse has been taken out of the pools. There's only one way to try to make the best of a f-ed up situation. That horse MUST run for purse money only.
__________________
"Just because she's a hitter and a thief doesn't mean she's not a good woman in all the other places" Mayrose Prizzi
Last edited by v j stauffer; 10-06-2023 at 11:30 AM.
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10-09-2023, 03:43 PM
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,239
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Yesterday at SA there was an inquiry into the Surfer Girl Stakes. The winner, Dreamfyre, was trained by O.J. Jauregui. One of the stewards was Luis Jauregui, the brother of the trainer. The decision to not make a change was unanimous.
Jay Privman wrote this:
Are you kidding me? @caCHRB
should demand he recuse himself in this instance
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10-09-2023, 04:04 PM
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#54
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
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Did DRF (or Prat) really use that phrasing or is that, "Zenyatta John" channeling his 'inner-DRF'?
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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10-09-2023, 06:20 PM
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubercapper
Yesterday at SA there was an inquiry into the Surfer Girl Stakes. The winner, Dreamfyre, was trained by O.J. Jauregui. One of the stewards was Luis Jauregui, the brother of the trainer. The decision to not make a change was unanimous.
Jay Privman wrote this:
Are you kidding me? @caCHRB
should demand he recuse himself in this instance |
Back in the day there was a Steward named Ingrid Fermin. Her brother or husband was named Buzz Fermin who had some connection to Bruce Headley. She would recuse herself when one of Headley's horses would run. Dilanesp probably remembers this more accurately. IMO Luis Jauregui should have stepped away. There are safety stewards who could have judged that race. Or Chief Steward Darrell McHargue or Executive Director Scott Chaney. I know Luis. Do I think he would give biased treatment to his brother? Highly unlikely. But the optics are not good and there's no need to bother with it.
__________________
"Just because she's a hitter and a thief doesn't mean she's not a good woman in all the other places" Mayrose Prizzi
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10-09-2023, 06:23 PM
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v j stauffer
Back in the day there was a Steward named Ingrid Fermin. Her brother or husband was named Buzz Fermin who had some connection to Bruce Headley. She would recuse herself when one of Headley's horses would run. Dilanesp probably remembers this more accurately. IMO Luis Jauregui should have stepped away. There are safety stewards who could have judged that race. Or Chief Steward Darrell McHargue or Executive Director Scott Chaney. I know Luis. Do I think he would give biased treatment to his brother? Highly unlikely. But the optics are not good and there's no need to bother with it.
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They made the right call yesterday. It was a light bump.
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10-09-2023, 07:27 PM
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#57
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
They made the right call yesterday. It was a light bump.
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We gambling on this shit. The assessment of the accuracy is irrelevant in a recuse issue.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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10-10-2023, 02:48 PM
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#58
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,559
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by asaro zenyattajohn prat??
From DRF - Prat on Irad, everyone but the Stews
knows he's dangerous...
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jesus ... beneath his 'professional' class-act persona Prat just throws the jockeys he frequently rides uncoupled entries with in Graded Stakes under the bus.
something tells me he didn't say that shit.
he said the quote about Irad squeezing them and him taking the worst of it on a specific trip. Not that extra stuff.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
Last edited by Robert Fischer; 10-10-2023 at 02:50 PM.
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