Bob Baffert suspended 90 days, fined $7,500, Medina Spirit DQed from Kentucky Derby

[Bustin Stones]

The track is the advocate for the gamblers that create handle. Gamblers do not have direct input to the conducting of the races or the enforcing.

The jockeys and trainers are the advocates for the owner. As the owner has no direct involvement in the races.

No matter how much race hanky panky goes on or mistreatment of horses or injecting occurs, gamblers and owners cannot directly control it.

The future survival of the sport is in the hands of the advocates. If horse racing goes the way of Jai Alai, it would be sad, and it's frustrating that there appears to be little we can do.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Bustin Stones

The track is the advocate for the gamblers that create handle. Gamblers do not have direct input to the conducting of the races or the enforcing.

The jockeys and trainers are the advocates for the owner. As the owner has no direct involvement in the races.

No matter how much race hanky panky goes on or mistreatment of horses or injecting occurs, gamblers and owners cannot directly control it.

The future survival of the sport is in the hands of the advocates. If horse racing goes the way of Jai Alai, it would be sad, and it's frustrating that there appears to be little we can do.

Owners actually have a lot more power than you are saying. I'm not saying they all know everything that is going on (they don't), but they do get vet bills, they do discuss their horses' treatments and training regimens with the trainers, and they certainly know when the trainers they hire have drawn drug suspensions.

If owners were more proactive about declining to hire or pulling their horses from trainers with dubious records, that could help the sport a lot.

[Bustin Stones]

This is true in theory, but since it hadn't happened there's reasons it didn't.

When the people who put money into the game don't control the game and the people who draw money out of the game do, it's the inmates running the asylum. That is a recipe for failure.

This is the historical structure of the sport. Nowhere has it been written that it has to stay this way. And maybe incentives prevent it from changing much.

Is horse racing shrinking in Europe, Asia or Australia?

[cj]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

He's suing to get the Churchill suspension overturned. Chances of success have got to be less than 10%, and even if he wins, he would still need to get the KHRC ruling overturned as well.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/bob-baf...52461?mod=e2tw

Well now he is suing for that too.

[davew]

When I was watching the Dubai day feed, they interviewed a guy that was confident it would be overturned. Not sure who it was, maybe Amr Zedan. They said dexamethasone valerate was found, which is the topical version.

Is that version of the drug not on the banned list?

[Sysonby]

List just refers to betamethasone so any beta in horse's system on race day is an offence. As well, another section of the regulations indicates ointments containing steroids should not be used within seven days of a race so there are actually two sections that prohibit what happened with Medina Spirit. BB's lawyers are trying to mist people on the rules. You can read the regulations yourself if you want to check the KHRC website, you can access them.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by cj

Well now he is suing for that too.

The important thing is that the chances of winning two lawsuits is particularly low, not only because it's 2 different lawsuits that raise different issues against entities with different powers, but also for two other reasons:

1. A petitioner/plaintiff's best shot in this situation is to find a judge who is willing to disregard the law because he/she thinks it is cool to decide who runs in the Kentucky Derby (that's, for instance, how Tom Brady won his case at the trial court over ball deflation- he got a football fan judge who was willing to ignore the law, and who was of course overturned on appeal). But now you need to find 2 of those judges!

2. The fact that either judge's decision WON'T actually make Baffert eligible, perversely, lowers his chances with either judge. The "fun" of making an illegal ruling here for a judge is that you get to decide who runs in the Derby. But if you know there's this other rule out there that also bans Baffert, your decision will not, in fact, cause any entries into the Derby.

So his chances are super-duper low. I have to give the KHRC credit- by waiting so long to make their decision, they really screwed Baffert.

[rastajenk]

Isn't a ruling appealed before the suits fly? Has that happened already? It seems to me that talk of a lawsuit to reverse a ruling is a little (a lot) premature. Maybe I missed something.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

Isn't a ruling appealed before the suits fly? Has that happened already? It seems to me that talk of a lawsuit to reverse a ruling is a little (a lot) premature. Maybe I missed something.

A person sanctioned can request an appeal which will be granted. But usually quite a lot of time passes.

What they are requesting is a STAY pending the appeal.

Some States tend to rubber stamp requests for stays. Others rarely grant them.

When the request for stay is denied that's where the courts become involved.

The suspended licensee asks the court for a TRO Temporary Restraining Order allowing them to compete until the appeal is heard.

In Ca it's been my experience most requests for a TRO are successful.

It's a ploy many suspended jockeys use to plan out when they will take their suspension when it's more convenient and less injurious to their business.

Can't just walk into court and ask a judge for a TRO. Have to retain an attorney. Last time I was involved the going rate was around $3000.

A pittance for a Prat or Rosario. Not so much for a fringe guy. That $3000 weighs heavily on the decision to seek the TRO.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

A person sanctioned can request an appeal which will be granted. But usually quite a lot of time passes.

What they are requesting is a STAY pending the appeal.

Some States tend to rubber stamp requests for stays. Others rarely grant them.

When the request for stay is denied that's where the courts become involved.

The suspended licensee asks the court for a TRO Temporary Restraining Order allowing them to compete until the appeal is heard.

In Ca it's been my experience most requests for a TRO are successful.

It's a ploy many suspended jockeys use to plan out when they will take their suspension when it's more convenient and less injurious to their business.

Can't just walk into court and ask a judge for a TRO. Have to retain an attorney. Last time I was involved the going rate was around $3000.

A pittance for a Prat or Rosario. Not so much for a fringe guy. That $3000 weighs heavily on the decision to seek the TRO.

It's worth noting that jockey suspensions for careless riding are VERY different than a trainer accused of doping.

Doping is both far more dangerous activity (it implicates animal welfare AND threatens the integrity of the betting pools) AND is likely to recur.

While TRO's for doping suspensions do happen, they are not common, and the interests that the state (and especially a private racetrack) has in immediate rules enforcement are A LOT stronger with a doping trainer than with a careless rider.

[Robert Fischer]

Interesting stuff Vic

[Andy Asaro]

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Last edited by Andy Asaro; 03-02-2022 at 11:11 AM.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

https://twitter.com/TimSullivan714/s...44795523686405


https://twitter.com/DRFHegarty/statu...42103099285510

These rulings don't help Baffert at all. They actually ensure that if he loses the stay motion, he'll be suspended for the Belmont as well.

[dilanesp]

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[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

These rulings don't help Baffert at all. They actually ensure that if he loses the stay motion, he'll be suspended for the Belmont as well.