Trayvon Martin

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by bigmack

Let me get this straight - You're bent because I used 'types' 'cause you're one of the "types" ? Geeze Man, sorry.

Dig. I don't give a rats ass about what you think is manslaughter or if he should have a gun and neither does anyone else.

Fact is, you want justice and with self defence laws the way they is, Georgie walks.

Let that soil your undies for a spell.

Me? I saw it all along.

Meanwhile, if anyone needs to know if they should go to the store packin' heat, or to the movies, or anywhere they want, including on neighborhood watch, you'll be our 'go to' guy. Sort of our Captain.

Dig?...

Florida Manslaughter:

The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder . . .

As far as the stand your ground law...

776.041

Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant

My interpretation, as well as Jeb Bush's, of this law is that Zimmerman committed manslaughter.

Your "shit happens" outlook just doesn't gel with me... but I know the difference between escape and follow... and being in a car vs. out of a car.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

You posted a article and made the insinuation that us "nerds" shouldn't think that Zimmerman went hunting after Martin.

I pointed out, correctly, that he did grab his weapon and exit his vehicle to try and help capturing him by foot.

That is not correct. Zimm chased the kid while on the phone with the 911 police dispatcher, but after the cop on the other end told him that "we don't need you to be doing that", Zimm stopped chasing him. Go back and listen to the 911 tape very carefully, putting your biased presuppositions aside, if you can do that. You can hear Zimm panting heavily into the phone when he started his chase, but after the cop told him that he didn't need to be doing that, you can hear Zimm breathing normally into the phone -- for 93 seconds -- the duration of the call after he had stopped chasing Martin! And during this 93 seconds -- after the chase ended -- Zimm lost visual contact with Martin.

So, one of two things very likely happened after the 911 call ended. Either Martin circled back and ambushed Zimm as he was heading back to his vehicle, or Zimm, still being nervous over losing sight of Martin when he was on the phone with 911, started walking to see if he could reestablish visual contact, and during that walk, Martin jumped out at Zimm. If either of these scenarios are correct, then Martin is ultimately the cause of his own demise because he didn't have to escalate the event. Do you understand this? Martin could have chosen to remain out of visual contact with Zimm. In fact, he could have gone home! He did not have to escalate the "initial contact". It's very unlikely that the shooting went down as LS thinks it did, that is to say, that Martin was cornered like a rat by Zimm.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Dig?...

Florida Manslaughter:

The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder . . .

As far as the stand your ground law...

776.041

Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant

My interpretation, as well as Jeb Bush's, of this law is that Zimmerman committed manslaughter.

Your "shit happens" outlook just doesn't gel with me... but I know the difference between escape and follow... and being in a car vs. out of a car.

Jeb Bush? That says it all. Jeb Bush, the great criminal attorney!

And how can you, Bush or anyone interpret the manslaughter law without knowing all the facts? What if Zimm believed in his heart of hearts that he had no other choice but to use deadly force after his head had been smashed into the ground and Martin tried to smother him?

Boxcar

[bigmack]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Your "shit happens" outlook just doesn't gel with me...

You failed to mention that oftentimes it's when someone knocks someone to the ground and pounds their head on the sidewalk when shit happens. See, shit is ALREADY happenininin.

Who is this Jeb Bush you speak of?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by bigmack

Who is this Jeb Bush you speak of?

Hopefully for your sake (as well as many others here), not Romney's VP choice. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

Boxcar

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by bigmack

You failed to mention that oftentimes it's when someone knocks someone to the ground and pounds their head on the sidewalk when shit happens. See, shit is ALREADY happenininin.

Who is this Jeb Bush you speak of?

1100 and counting...

The people with guns don't side with you. I've shown the law doesn't side with you. Yet you still keep talking...

I'm sure you and your bestie will still get this thing to 1500.

Here is a picture of you two... I'll let you guys figure out who is who...

[bigmack]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

1100 and counting...

While you're counting, count how many are yours.

I'd like to see you, (Mr. Gunman) on the witness stand.

Q: Was Mr. Z within his legal rights of carrying said firearm?
A: Wull, yeah, but...
Q: Was Mr. Z within his legal rights to walk anywhere he wished?
A: Wull, yeah, but...
Q: Was Mr. Z within his legal rights to defend himself from what he thought was a life threatening attack?
A: Wull, yeah, but...

Next witness. Get this clown outta here.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by bigmack

While you're counting, count how many are yours.

Allow me...he's currently in sixth place:

boxcar 239
bigmack 124
lsbets 124
PaceAdvantage 76
Robert Fischer 56
elysiantraveller 50

[JustRalph]

In line with the latet turn the thread has taken let me remind that i pointed out early on that being legally right and morally right are two different things in this case.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

1100 and counting...

The people with guns don't side with you. I've shown the law doesn't side with you. Yet you still keep talking...

I'm sure you and your bestie will still get this thing to 1500.

Here is a picture of you two... I'll let you guys figure out who is who...

Well, I am a gun owner and I don't side with your biased presuppositions.

Boxcar

[jelly]

Business Insider put together some chronological bullet points highlighting the article’s most important points:

•Zimmerman grew up in a mixed-race household
•He was an altar boy at his Caltholic church from age 7-17
•He is bilingual
•After he finished high school, he studied for and got an insurance license
•In 2004, Zimmerman and a black friend opened an Allstate insurance office (which soon failed)
•Zimmerman’s 2005 arrest for “resisting arrest, violence, and battery of an officer” occurred after he shoved an under-cover alcohol control agent at a bar when the agent was trying to arrest an underage friend of his
•Zimmerman married his wife, Shellie, in 2007. They rented a house in Twin Lakes. Twin Lakes is about 50% white, 20% Hispanic, and 20% black.
•In 2009, Zimmerman enrolled in Seminole State College
•In the fall of 2009, a pit bull broke free twice and once cornered Shellie in the Zimmermans’ yard. George Zimmerman asked a police officer whether he should buy pepper spray. The cop told him pepper spray wasn’t fast enough and recommended that he get a gun.
•By the summer of 2011, Twin Lakes “was experiencing a rash of burglaries and break-ins.” In several of the cases, witnesses said the robbers were young black men
•In July 2011, a black teenager stole a bicycle off the Zimmermans’ porch
•In August of 2011, a neighbor of the Zimmermans, Olivia Bertalan, was home during the day when two young black men entered her house. She hid in a room upstairs and called the police. When the police arrived, the two men, who had been trying to take a TV, fled. One of them ran through the Zimmermans’ yard.
•After the break-in, George Zimmerman stopped by the Bertalans and gave Olivia a card with his name and number on it. He told her to visit his wife Shellie if she felt unsafe.
•The police recommended that Bertalan get a dog. She moved away instead. Zimmerman got a second dog–a Rottweiler.
•In September, several concerned residents of the neighborhood, including Zimmerman, asked the neighborhood association to create a neighborhood watch. Zimmerman was asked to run it.
•In the next month, two more houses in the neighborhood were robbed.
•A community newsletter reminded residents to report any crimes to the police and then call “George Zimmerman, our captain.”
•On February 2, 2012, Zimmerman spotted a young black man looking into the windows of a neighbor’s empty house. He called the police and said “I don‘t know what he’s doing. I don’t want to approach him, personally.” The police sent a car, but by the time they arrived, the man was gone.
•On February 6th, another house was burglarized. Witnesses said two of the robbers were black teenagers. One, who had prior burglary convictions, was soon caught with a laptop stolen from the house.
•Two weeks later, Zimmerman spotted Travyon Martin and called the police. The last time he had done this, the suspect got away. This time, he disregarded police instructions and followed. A few minutes later, Martin was dead.

Is it possible that Zimmerman is an angry racist? It is. But as Business Insider wonders, “doesn’t it make you feel a bit differently about Zimmerman?”





http://www.theblaze.com/stories/thin...he-perception/

[Robert Fischer]

What is his favorite flavor of ice cream?

[Let's Roll]

Those are great bullet points about Zimmerman.
I would like to see the same detailed summary of Trayvon Martin's life.

[bigmack]

Originally Posted by jelly

Is it possible that Zimmerman is an angry racist? It is. But as Business Insider wonders, “doesn’t it make you feel a bit differently about Zimmerman?”

Allow me to answer for elysiantraveller.

Ain't no way possible that I could ever feel ANY differently about Zim than I ever did. That "self-appointed" neighborhood watch Captain, was a vigilante, hell-bent on killing. He KNEW it was wrong to be carrying a gun to go grocery shopping. He knew this was just a kid who was unarmed. He knew he could 'corner' this kid and with any luck the kid would make the first move, allowing Mr. Z. to kill Trayvon dead.

ANY self-respecting neighborhood watch Captain would have returned to his home and upholstered his weapon, AND THEN go and look for Trayvon. Better yet, that angry, good for nothin' creep, should have never followed him in the first place. He caused this entire thing to happen and he deserves to go to prison for decades.

I see the evil in his heart as clear as day.

Confused,

elysiantraveller

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Let's Roll

Those are great bullet points about Zimmerman.
I would like to see the same detailed summary of Trayvon Martin's life.

Now that was funny! And would you like for those bullet points to be the web's pre-scrub or post-scrub version of Martin?

Boxcar