The Greatest of All Time - Bob Baffert

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by paulbenny

Wayne Lukas, who trains Timber Country and Thunder Gulch, two leading candidates for the Kentucky Derby, has been suspended for 60 days by New York racing authorities.
The New York State Racing and Wagering Board announced the suspension Friday, more than five months after the Lukas-trained Flanders tested positive for a therapeutic drug after winning the Sept. 17 Matron Stakes at Belmont Park.
The suspension, which would be enforced by other states under racing’s reciprocity rule, runs March 15-May 13. New York authorities said Lukas has 10 days to appeal, and that the suspension would be reduced to 45 days if he does not.




There were rumors about Whitley. Rumors. This is real about Lukas, who to me is still cranking 26 years later. Why are we not resurfacing things about others. This has been going on a long time.


When people do not like something, they lose their objectivity. I worked as a consultant to big companies and the government and am a fact guy.


The facts will determine what happened with BB. Lets not forget the other people out there who did not finish in the top 5. Or were out of the money on the other races.



Again, disqualify him but do not crucify him.

Did Lukas train the Derby winner who just failed a drug test? Maybe that's why.

For a "fact guy", your logic of "other people drugged horses in the past so Baffert is innocent" is pretty weak. It does kinda explain why you work for the government though.

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by castaway01

For a "fact guy", your logic of "other people drugged horses in the past so Baffert is innocent" is pretty weak. It does kinda explain why you work for the government though.

So good....

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

if he aint doped how is he winning?

You really have no way of knowing either way...

[rastajenk]

A 4 C medication is not doping.

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

[46zilzal]

Originally Posted by cj

Owners win races, jockeys win races, trainers win races, horses win races, even breeders win races. They are all a team (save maybe breeders in most cases). No horse wins alone just like no human wins without the horse.

So yea, dick post.

Only organism running in a race

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

[pandy]

Originally Posted by mostpost

The problem here is that so many here think every one is a cheater, especially anyone who is successful. My opinion is that if you are so anxious to accuse others of cheating it’s because you cheat in your life and can’t conceive of others succeeding without cheating.

Sometimes a mistake is simply that, a mistake.

When I wrote my piece on Baffert after last year's Derby, I made it clear that I don't think that successful trainers should be questioned simply because they win. But Baffert's record of drug violations and the way the CHRB has covered up for him is astonishing. The Justify incident alone was pure corruption. The horse tested positive after winning the Santa Anita Derby and the CHRB covered it up. And, of course, when 7 of Baffert's horses dropped dead in a 16 month period, the CHRB essentially covered that up as well. Pure corruption.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by pandy

When I wrote my piece on Baffert after last year's Derby, I made it clear that I don't think that successful trainers should be questioned simply because they win. But Baffert's record of drug violations and the way the CHRB has covered up for him is astonishing. The Justify incident alone was pure corruption. The horse tested positive after winning the Santa Anita Derby and the CHRB covered it up. And, of course, when 7 of Baffert's horses dropped dead in a 16 month period, the CHRB essentially covered that up as well. Pure corruption.

Also, the debate over how much cheating there is, solves itself if the sport actually takes on cheating. That's what eventually happened in baseball- it got more serious about drug penalties and, lo and behold, it turned out a lot of players like A Rod who had cultivated media images as non-cheaters had been cheating. But if that hadn't have happened, and it was just a few, the stricter drug testing and punishment would still have been a good idea.

As long as horse racing does so little to prevent cheating, it allows people to go online and assert that those of us who harbor suspicions are overstating the problem. If you really think we are overstating the problem, you should want effective testing and massive, certain punishments to get what you see as the few bad apples out of the sport and restore its reputation.

[biggestal99]

I didn’t know what was in otomax. It was not on the label.

Allan

[paulbenny]

I worked for large CPA firms, and big hospitality public companies, and am on my own. I did not say Baffert is innocent. He should be punished. I am saying that this is disproportionate to the other situations out there that have been going on a long time. You have to read what I stated earlier. He definitely should be ousted from the win if the split comes up positive.



The notion that this is like Lance Armstrong is ridiculous. I am indifferent to this guy, Bob Baffert. I just believe people are jumping to conclusions on his entire career now. If that is the case, lets list out Pletcher is this too. He must have been suspended or had a positive right? Lukas was not being treated this way from what I can tell. The Phipps stable is not going to run against him? Where were they when Navarro was on video with the juice owner. People are playing politics.

[paulbenny]

OTOMAX according to the thoroughbred daily news article i read has noted that Beta is clearly an ingredient on the label.

[Jeff P]

Link to the OTOMAX® Product Label at the Merck website:
https://merckusa.cvpservice.com/prod...c/view/1047143

Betamethasone: Betamethasone valerate is a synthetic adrenocorticoid for dermatologic use. Betamethasone, an analog of prednisolone, has a high degree of corticosteroid activity and a slight degree of mineralocorticosteroid activity. Betamethasone valerate, the 17-valerate ester of betamethasone, has been shown to provide anti-inflammatory and antipruritic activity in the topical management of corticosteroid-responsive otitis externa.

Topical corticosteroids can be absorbed from normal, intact skin. Inflammation can increase percutaneous absorption. Once absorbed through the skin, topical corticosteroids are handled through pharmacokinetic pathways similar to systemically administered corticosteroids.

-jp

.

[castaway01]

The vast majority of the time, the "the groom peed in the food", "the dog ate my homework", "I didn't realize my Derby contender was injected with this illegal dose" is BS. Those who try to explain it away are running errands for people who think you're a sucker and a fool.

Honestly, if someone like Baffert was "real", he would be amazing for the game. And of course that's what the powers that be want, to not have this well-spoken, well-groomed, well-dressed guy be guilty. And I wish he wasn't. But did the groom pee in the feed of the Derby contender, did this genius trainer not know what the vet was injecting his horse with...or did the horse get dosed with a little too much painkiller a little too close to the race, and it showed up on the post-race test?

This case is like watching the arsonist who burned down 26 houses say the 27th fire was accidental. Sure, maybe it was....but if you use your brain and not your heart...was it really?

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by paulbenny

I worked for large CPA firms, and big hospitality public companies, and am on my own. I did not say Baffert is innocent. He should be punished. I am saying that this is disproportionate to the other situations out there that have been going on a long time.

That's a bad argument. It means once you set a precedent of being soft on cheaters, you can never get tough because that would be "unfair".

So it's the same as saying "drugs should remain in the sport forever".