Keeneland apparently raising takeout

[thaskalos]

The track takeouts have only one way to go...and that's UP. The operational expenses of running the game are high, and getting higher...and, when the vast majority of the mutuel handle comes from out of state, the host tracks do not benefit to the extent that they otherwise do. Currently, the high operating costs of running the game are mainly being carried by the accompanying casinos...but the casino-gaming market has gotten overcrowded too...and those profits too will start declining sharply before too long. Add in the very realistic fear that the state legislators will soon realize that the many millions of dollars that are now used to subsidize horse racing could be put to much better use...and the future outlook for our favorite game becomes very bleak indeed.

We horseplayers are the only entity deeply involved in the game which remains totally without a voice in the sport. The horseplayers are treated as "spectators" in this game...when the reality is that we are much more than just that. We are ACTIVE PARTICIPANTS...and we are as important to the survival of this game as the owners, trainers and jockeys claim to be. Our bets are the LIFEBLOOD of this game...and we should be INSULTED when the racing industry compares us to the "entertainment-seeking" fans who populate the sporting arenas of our major team sports. The team sports can afford to treat their fans as "spectators", because they get their money from huge television contracts...but horse racing gets its money directly from us.

Unfortunately, when you have no voice in a business venture...you get the short end of the stick, no matter HOW important of an entity you are to the enterprise. The other "partners" in the business have ample representation...and they secure as big a piece of the pie as they can for THEMSELVES...while you are left holding the bag. Notice how the millions and millions of dollars that the racinos have generated have been nicely divided up by the "represented" entities in the game...while the horseplayers are asked to pay even HIGHER rates now, than they did before...if they want to continue playing this game. "Pay what we want, or there is the door"...the horseplayer is being told...as if he were a FREELOADER, instead of a "business partner".

This issue is much bigger than just the current Keeneland takeout increase, ladies and gentlemen. This is about the horseplayer finally realizing that he is being played for a FOOL...and being lied to blatantly, whether business is good OR bad. When horse racing was thriving in popularity, and enjoying unprecedented prosperity while having a monopoly in the gambling landscape...the horseplayer was paying an exorbitant takeout rate because he was told that the costs of the game were so high. Believing what he was told, he remained loyal...and faithfully supported this game for many years. Well...the era of the racino is upon us, and the game's high operational costs are largely alleviated by the highly profitable casino businesses that the racetracks are running on the side. But the casino profits are obviously only for the OTHER entities in the game...while the horseplayer is still asked to cough up even HIGHER prices than before...in order to participate in the game that he has been loyal to for decades.

The horseman has drawn a line in the sand...and has said that he refuses to accept a "pay-cut". He wants the purses to remain at a high level...because this game isn't an "entertainment venue" for him. So...the burden of covering any forthcoming expenses must necessarily be placed on the shoulders of the much-maligned horseplayer...who has no voice in the game...and whose apathy allows him to be manipulated at will.

Boycott or no boycott...an effort must be made to get us horseplayers UNITED...so we could prove that we are a force to be reckoned with in this game. On the surface, this takeout increase is a very minor development...but, left unattended...it could have far-reaching implications. Make no mistake about it, the casino profits will eventually dry up...and the horsemen have gotten spoiled by the lucrative purses that they've gotten used to. They'll ask for additional takeout hikes in the future, and, if history is any indication...they'll get their wish.

More than a "boycott"...the horseplayer needs a VOICE IN THE GAME. Otherwise...he'll soon find himself priced out of the game he loves.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

[B]Boycott or no boycott...an effort must be made to get us horseplayers UNITED...so we could prove that we are a force to be reckoned with in this game. On the surface, this takeout increase is a very minor development...but, left unattended...it could have far-reaching implications. Make no mistake about it, the casino profits will eventually dry up...and the horsemen have gotten spoiled by the lucrative purses that they've gotten used to. They'll ask for additional takeout hikes in the future, and, if history is any indication...they'll get their wish.

More than a "boycott"...the horseplayer needs a VOICE IN THE GAME. Otherwise...he'll soon find himself priced out of the game he loves.

Agree with mostly everything.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by Charli125

It really shouldn't, no. Just shows that the horseplayer segment of racing is just as dysfunctional as the rest of it.

So basically you only want to hear praise...nothing critical. Good luck with that.

[Charli125]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

So basically you only want to hear praise...nothing critical. Good luck with that.

If that's what you took from my post, might want to work on your reading comprehension skills.

[AltonKelsey]

If every serious horseplayer simple stopped betting for a week. Just a week.

If you can't bring yourselves to do it, then I guess you deserve what you get.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The track takeouts have only one way to go...and that's UP. The operational expenses of running the game are high, and getting higher...and, when the vast majority of the mutuel handle comes from out of state, the host tracks do not benefit to the extent that they otherwise do. Currently, the high operating costs of running the game are mainly being carried by the accompanying casinos...but the casino-gaming market has gotten overcrowded too...and those profits too will start declining sharply before too long. Add in the very realistic fear that the state legislators will soon realize that the many millions of dollars that are now used to subsidize horse racing could be put to much better use...and the future outlook for our favorite game becomes very bleak indeed.

We horseplayers are the only entity deeply involved in the game which remains totally without a voice in the sport. The horseplayers are treated as "spectators" in this game...when the reality is that we are much more than just that. We are ACTIVE PARTICIPANTS...and we are as important to the survival of this game as the owners, trainers and jockeys claim to be. Our bets are the LIFEBLOOD of this game...and we should be INSULTED when the racing industry compares us to the "entertainment-seeking" fans who populate the sporting arenas of our major team sports. The team sports can afford to treat their fans as "spectators", because they get their money from huge television contracts...but horse racing gets its money directly from us.

Unfortunately, when you have no voice in a business venture...you get the short end of the stick, no matter HOW important of an entity you are to the enterprise. The other "partners" in the business have ample representation...and they secure as big a piece of the pie as they can for THEMSELVES...while you are left holding the bag. Notice how the millions and millions of dollars that the racinos have generated have been nicely divided up by the "represented" entities in the game...while the horseplayers are asked to pay even HIGHER rates now, than they did before...if they want to continue playing this game. "Pay what we want, or there is the door"...the horseplayer is being told...as if he were a FREELOADER, instead of a "business partner".

This issue is much bigger than just the current Keeneland takeout increase, ladies and gentlemen. This is about the horseplayer finally realizing that he is being played for a FOOL...and being lied to blatantly, whether business is good OR bad. When horse racing was thriving in popularity, and enjoying unprecedented prosperity while having a monopoly in the gambling landscape...the horseplayer was paying an exorbitant takeout rate because he was told that the costs of the game were so high. Believing what he was told, he remained loyal...and faithfully supported this game for many years. Well...the era of the racino is upon us, and the game's high operational costs are largely alleviated by the highly profitable casino businesses that the racetracks are running on the side. But the casino profits are obviously only for the OTHER entities in the game...while the horseplayer is still asked to cough up even HIGHER prices than before...in order to participate in the game that he has been loyal to for decades.

The horseman has drawn a line in the sand...and has said that he refuses to accept a "pay-cut". He wants the purses to remain at a high level...because this game isn't an "entertainment venue" for him. So...the burden of covering any forthcoming expenses must necessarily be placed on the shoulders of the much-maligned horseplayer...who has no voice in the game...and whose apathy allows him to be manipulated at will.

Boycott or no boycott...an effort must be made to get us horseplayers UNITED...so we could prove that we are a force to be reckoned with in this game. On the surface, this takeout increase is a very minor development...but, left unattended...it could have far-reaching implications. Make no mistake about it, the casino profits will eventually dry up...and the horsemen have gotten spoiled by the lucrative purses that they've gotten used to. They'll ask for additional takeout hikes in the future, and, if history is any indication...they'll get their wish.

More than a "boycott"...the horseplayer needs a VOICE IN THE GAME. Otherwise...he'll soon find himself priced out of the game he loves.

Racing is dysfunctional because it has no central organization. It could do much better than it does, I'll give you that. I too am often frustrated.

But here's where you get me - thinking that you should have a "voice." You do have a voice, and it's the very same one that every consumer of every product has. You can buy or not buy the product. Thinking you're different, that you're the "lifeblood"...... you think that the consumers of hamburgers at McDonald's aren't their "lifeblood"? Or the customers of a movie theatre or an antique store aren't their "lifeblood?"

Handicappers are the consumers or customers of a product. That's it. You're no different than every other consumer or customer of every product made and service offered.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by Charli125

If that's what you took from my post, might want to work on your reading comprehension skills.

Keep insulting horseplayers. That's a good look. No wonder no one takes horseplayers serious. Look at the way "our voice" treats horseplayers.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

......We horseplayers are the only entity deeply involved in the game which remains totally without a voice in the sport. The horseplayers are treated as "spectators" in this game...when the reality is that we are much more than just that. We are ACTIVE PARTICIPANTS...and we are as important to the survival of this game as the owners, trainers and jockeys claim to be. Our bets are the LIFEBLOOD of this game...and we should be INSULTED when the racing industry compares us to the "entertainment-seeking" fans who populate the sporting arenas of our major team sports. The team sports can afford to treat their fans as "spectators", because they get their money from huge television contracts...but horse racing gets its money directly from us.

Race fans are no different than any other customer of entertainment. Bowling, golf, go-carts, etc., etc. TV contracts are a result of having spectators, they are only in place because of spectators. If horse racing had a similar following, they too would have big TV contracts.

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Unfortunately, when you have no voice in a business venture...you get the short end of the stick, no matter HOW important of an entity you are to the enterprise. The other "partners" in the business have ample representation...and they secure as big a piece of the pie as they can for THEMSELVES...while you are left holding the bag. Notice how the millions and millions of dollars that the racinos have generated have been nicely divided up by the "represented" entities in the game...while the horseplayers are asked to pay even HIGHER rates now, than they did before...if they want to continue playing this game. "Pay what we want, or there is the door"...the horseplayer is being told...as if he were a FREELOADER, instead of a "business partner".

Bettors are no more a business partner than someone who shops at grocery store or goes to a restaurant. Are people who go to casinos and participate by asking for a card at the 21 table a business partner? Hardly.

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The horseman has drawn a line in the sand...and has said that he refuses to accept a "pay-cut". He wants the purses to remain at a high level...because this game isn't an "entertainment venue" for him. So...the burden of covering any forthcoming expenses must necessarily be placed on the shoulders of the much-maligned horseplayer...who has no voice in the game...and whose apathy allows him to be manipulated at will.

Trying to equate the horsemen with the bettor is a big reach. In many situations, the horsemen (owners, trainers, grooms, etc) are working to pay their bills. I doubt you could say the same for 99.5% of the bettors.

The bettors need to start acting like a responsible consumers just like you would if you don't like the prices or the food at a restaurant.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Racing is dysfunctional because it has no central organization. It could do much better than it does, I'll give you that. I too am often frustrated.

But here's where you get me - thinking that you should have a "voice." You do have a voice, and it's the very same one that every consumer of every product has. You can buy or not buy the product. Thinking you're different, that you're the "lifeblood"...... you think that the consumers of hamburgers at McDonald's aren't their "lifeblood"? Or the customers of a movie theatre or an antique store aren't their "lifeblood?"

Handicappers are the consumers or customers of a product. That's it. You're no different than every other consumer or customer of every product made and service offered.

The horseplayer isn't like the "McDonald's customer"...or the shopper in a "antique store". The horseplayer isn't "buying" ANYTHING...he is supplying the "liquidity" in the trading of a "commodity" where large amounts of money change hands.

In essense...horse racing is like a trading exchange...and the horseplayers are the independent traders...who supply the liquidity that makes the entire operation a viable business venture. This is GAMBLING, sir...it isn't "running a McDonald's".

[Charli125]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

Keep insulting horseplayers. That's a good look. No wonder no one takes horseplayers serious. Look at the way "our voice" treats horseplayers.

That wasn't an insult, it was a suggestion to better yourself. Nowhere in my post did I say anything about only wanting positive responses, or not wanting negative responses. On the contrary, they're expected.

I was simply explaining that HANA can't do the heavy lifting here. It's a personal/business decision that each horseplayer needs to make. Even if they do make that decision, I don't think it'll do much good as per the 2nd part of his post that I quoted.

It's easy to blame HANA, and I fully expect it as I do every year when I publish the track ratings. At the end of the day though, the HANA board members handle alone isn't going to move the needle.

[acorn54]

well i feel i am doing my part.
i take the advice of mike pizzolla and let the bet make me. if everything isn't jake i just avoid the races even if there is not a good value race to bet for the day. and basically just put extra cash in stocks and look for more employment to fill the time i bet the horses.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by Charli125

That wasn't an insult, it was a suggestion to better yourself. Nowhere in my post did I say anything about only wanting positive responses, or not wanting negative responses. On the contrary, they're expected.

Charlie are you saying there will be no boycott? If not just say so and it's over and everyone will move on. And please don't tell me about listening to the members.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

.....In essense...horse racing is like a trading exchange...and the horseplayers are the independent traders...who supply the liquidity that makes the entire operation a viable business venture. This is GAMBLING, sir...it isn't "running a McDonald's".

So if I trade stocks I am a business partner of the NYSE or whatever exchange I am trading through? No business is viable without their customers. Be it gambling on races or a Big Mac it is providing a product to a customer.

[Charli125]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

Charlie are you saying there will be no boycott? If not just say so and it's over and everyone will move on. And please don't tell me about listening to the members.

Not my decision and not the topic of my post. I'm sure Jeff will let you know once it's been decided.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by AndyC

So if I trade stocks I am a business partner of the NYSE or whatever exchange I am trading through? No business is viable without their customers. Be it gambling on races or a Big Mac it is providing a product to a customer.

There is a difference between buying a Big Mac...and buying McDonald's STOCK. When I invest my money in McDonald's stock...then I am no longer just a "customer". I enter into a "business association" with McDonald's, when I buy their stock. Whether I hold the McDonald's shares for a day, or for a DECADE, I have a BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP going on with them...and I expect to profit sometime in the future, if their stock performs to my expectations.

At the racetrack...I am a "customer" of the TRACK...but I am not a customer of the owners and the trainers of the horses that I bet on. I take my money to the betting window, and I exchange it for a piece of paper which affords me the opportunity to exchange that piece of paper for a PROFIT...if the horses that I wager on perform to my expectations. It doesn't matter if the race lasts only 1 minute and 10 seconds....for that 1 minute and 10 seconds, the horse connections and I are in a "business relationship". I have put up my money to augment the purse of the race...and they have entered their horses, so they could try and take down the purse, with my money in it. And, for a minute and 10 seconds...we are in a business partnership, with a common goal. To make a PROFIT.

I am a customer of the track...and the owners and the trainers of the horses are customers of the track, as well. A stock exchange has buyers and sellers...and BOTH, the buyers AND the sellers, are considered to be "customers" of the exchange. I am a customer of the track...and a "business associate" of the owners and the trainers of the horses. They have what I want...and I have what THEY want. And, this game allows us to form a "partnership" of sorts...even if this "partnership" lasts less than two minutes at a time.

You are a serious, life-long horseplayer...and I have to EXPLAIN this to you? You equate "serious horseplaying", with "buying a Big Mac from McDonald's"? I dare say that Andy Beyer and Roxy Roxborough would lose respect for you...if they read your comments in this thread.