BloodHorse 12 Best Colts of Decade...

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by ezrabrooks

Yep..that would be the same Mineshaft that PD beat by a head...getting 8 pounds.. Equal weights..and Mineshaft buries him.

8 whole pounds? Wow. I don't subscribe to the weight thing and hardly think 8 pounds would constitute a huge difference between a head loss and burying the other horse.

[chickenhead]

Originally Posted by sandpit

Lost it the Fog was a champion and won 10 races in a row. Maybe the BH listmakers should have not included him since he was a sprinter, which automatically puts him at a disadvantage.

I was a huge LITF fan, but he really doesn't belong on this list. I guess it all depends on what "best" means. best career, biggest splash, or most brilliant? Any number of older horses; St. Liam, Candy Ride, hell even Commentator, Rock Hard Ten, and Lawyer Ron had stretches where they would have dusted most of these 3 yos. I'd take Big Brown and Hard Spun over Street Sense as well.

And they gave love to turf horses in their Filly list but none for males? That is odd.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by FenceBored

And as far as the Iselin's Beyer is concerned: How many drinks did the Beyer Associates man have that day? That figure is just so totally out of whack it's not funny, 128 for a 1:47:66? Really? You mean if he had been running on the same track with Jolie's Halo, who tied the Track Record of 1:46.80 in 1992 (for which he got a 106 Beyer), Ghostzapper would have run it in 1:44 and change for the 9f, or 11 lengths faster?* That would be an American dirt record and is a time he never showed the capability of reaching. He ran 9f twice, and on a fast Belmont track ran it in 1:46.39. Since Belmont tends faster than Mth I see no way he would ever shave 2 seconds off his Iselin time on a fast Mth track.

[cj]

Originally Posted by FenceBored

And as far as the Iselin's Beyer is concerned: How many drinks did the Beyer Associates man have that day? That figure is just so totally out of whack it's not funny, 128 for a 1:47:66? Really? You mean if he had been running on the same track with Jolie's Halo, who tied the Track Record of 1:46.80 in 1992 (for which he got a 106 Beyer), Ghostzapper would have run it in 1:44 and change for the 9f, or 11 lengths faster?* That would be an American dirt record and is a time he never showed the capability of reaching. He ran 9f twice, and on a fast Belmont track ran it in 1:46.39. Since Belmont tends faster than Mth I see no way he would ever shave 2 seconds off his Iselin time on a fast Mth track.

* The explanation of the Beyer Speed Figures in the American Racing Manual states: "A horse who earns a 90 has run faster than one who runs an 80. In this system of numbers, 2 1/2 points are roughly equal to one length in sprints, 2 points to one length in routes."

All the above just shows that you don't really don't understand how to make figures. The only way to argue a figure is wrong is to talk about the other horses that ran that day.

How could Jolie's Halo's time that was run 12 years prior be relevant? How is his time at Belmont on a completely different race track around only one turn relevant? The answer is that they are not relevant at all to what Ghostzapper. I'm not arguing the figure is right or wrong, but your argument isn't going to provide any evidence in either direction.

[Show Me the Wire]

He doesn't understand many things and tends to ignore pertinent items. Maybe it is more about desiring controversy, than lack of understanding.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

He doesn't understand many things and tends to ignore pertinent items. Maybe it is more about desiring controversy, than lack of understanding.

No way you typed this with a straight face considering your performance in that other thread.

[Show Me the Wire]

Are you accusing me of initiating controversy, for controversy's sake? I may have controversial opinions, but that is an entirely different set of circumstances and motivations.

[Steve R]

It's hard to imagine anyone not thinking Ghostzapper was far and away the best American runner of the decade. Beyer has him with the two fastest figures since 1997 at a route distance and the 2nd fastest figure at a sprint distance since 1997. My figures show him fastest at 6 1/2f, 8f and 9f and 5th at 10f since 1999. Timeform ranks him as the only American horse of the decade above 135 pounds at 137, one pound below Cigar, while the Racing Post has Ghostzapper and Cigar equal at 135. Personally, I don't care that he had just 11 starts with 9 wins. Sea-Bird II had 7 wins in just 8 starts and many consider him the greatest of all time.

It's virtually impossible that everyone who analyzes races from a technical perspective, in fact different technical perspectives, got it wrong about Ghostzapper. I think he's among best I've seen over half a century.

[Show Me the Wire]

Horse Chestnut. can't leave him out.

[only11]

Originally Posted by joanied

Thought it might be fun if we choose our best 12 from the list the Bloodhorse choices...they are in alphabetical order...wether or not we agree on the 12, these are the ones the Bloodhorse picked:

Afleet Alex
Barbaro
Bernardini
Curlin
Ghostzapper
Invasor
Lost in the Fog
Mineshaft
Point Given
Smarty Jones
Street Sense
Tiznow

They obviously left out several we would have put on the list...and from these 12, man, I think it's hard to choose in what order to rank them.

Lost In A fog,there kidding.The better question who wins this race at 1 1/4?

[joanied]

I just knew this would open a huge can of squirmy-wormies...but, it's a slow time of the year...so, why not ...
I agree that this list they compiled is kinda strange...I wonder why some are on the list, and that several others are not...like instead of Barbaro ( RIP), why not Big Brown?
But, this is what the BH gave us to vote on...so regardless of our own opinions, including mine...here is how I place them...which, is my opinion ...

Afleet Alex 9
Barbaro 8 (Just wasn't with us long enough)
Bernardini 12 (his career was...whooooosh!!)
Curlin 3 (fair placing for him, IMO)
Ghostzapper 2
Invasor 5
Lost in the Fog 7 (crazy about him, have the DVD, but was a strict sprinter)
Mineshaft 10
Point Given 6 (shoulda been a TC winner)
Smarty Jones 4 (shoulda won the TC)
Street Sense 11
Tiznow 1 (his back to back Classics)

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by sandpit

I think you mean subjective, right? Maybe they would have been better off asking who is the best older male, 3yo, etc; that way, they would have had a lot more polls to offer and could have widened their scope.

Lost it the Fog was a champion and won 10 races in a row. Maybe the BH listmakers should have not included him since he was a sprinter, which automatically puts him at a disadvantage. Ultimately, his cancer was probably the cause of each of his 3 losses. I'd venture to say if he never became ill, he may have never lost a race. I was lucky enough to see him race and train on occasion, and he had an air about him that was not unlike Zenyatta. He knew when it was raceday, and was into it.

LITF was a very nice horse, and I thought his owner was great, but he obviously doesn't belong on the list. His top Beyer in Graded Stakes company barely topped 110 and I think he won a total of one Grade 1 race (Kings Bishop--I foolishly bet against him). We can't project what he might have been........imo.

[sandpit]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

LITF was a very nice horse, and I thought his owner was great, but he obviously doesn't belong on the list. His top Beyer in Graded Stakes company barely topped 110 and I think he won a total of one Grade 1 race (Kings Bishop--I foolishly bet against him). We can't project what he might have been........imo.

w/ only a single G1 victory, he probably doesn't belong on the list. He did get a 116 Beyer in the G2 Carry Back, though, and a 111 in the G3 Aristides, when his cancer was pretty far advanced. I think the reason most people dismiss him in regards to this list is that he was a sprinter. Like I said earlier, maybe they should have created polls for different divisions, not just sexes. You could make an argument that Kona Gold should be on the list somewhere.

[WinterTriangle]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

What male in the last decade was a better horse than Ghostzapper?

I agree he's on top.

Nobody mentioned Dalakhani, HOY in Europe for 2003. ( he's Conduit's daddy). (being mated to Zarkava, mare who was also left out of great filly/mare of the decade in the other topic.)

I'd also include Yeats in the list, he made Ascot history by winning the Royal Ascot 4 times consequetively.....the last one at 8 years old by 3.5 lengths....historical.

(for whatever reason, these "lists" tend to favor North American horses)

[WinterTriangle]

Besides the above that I added, what about Sea the Stars?

RPR gave him 134 makes Sea The Stars the highest-rated horse since Ghostzapper (135) in 2004. Higher than Curlin.

They also left out English Channel. Champion Turf Male of 2007. He won the Virigina Derby, Colonial Turf Cup, United Nations (twice), Joe Hirsch Turf Classic (twice), and Breeders' Cup Turf.