DRF increases PP's subscription price by 20%

[mountainman]

Originally Posted by castaway01

For people betting hundreds of dollars a day, why would a dollar make a difference?

Or 2 bucks next time, then 3..4..5. And aren't the people wagering hundies a day buying lots of forms over the course of a season? So. we aren't really talking about one-single-dollar, are we? We are talking about a 20% hike-which is hefty by any standard.

Also, haven't sinister track execs and politicians been (rightfully) villified for expressing this EXACT logic when implementing usurious take hikes? And haven't we horseplayers taken EXTREME umbrage at this "the idiots are addicted and will still bet at ANY takeout rate" logic???????????????????

Good post overall, but must take sharp exception to the quoted sentence.

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by mountainman

Hey, pal..how have you been? Saw this post and want to concur. As an official, i'm furnished with free forms, but purchase pp's online that offer formulator. It's a useful feature that has cut my prep time for the show in half. Sounds like i'm about to get gouged. No surprise from a company that enjoys -and has earned-a relative monopoly for its main product.

Not a bris fan, but do wish they could give drf a run for their money. With the exception of Joe Devivo, not a fan of the good folks at drf , either. Smug, inflexible and not pleasant to deal with behind the scenes. At least that's been my experience. Although it's a courtesty often extended other oddsmakers, they even refused me complimentary pp's to do mnr's morning line. Their stated reason was apprehension that i'd abuse the privilege by circulating the password amongst my friends. REALLY?? I'm a state-licensed official and well known as a man of my word.

Hello Mark-- Doing well, thanks for asking Hope all is well with you.

I'm not usually one to complain about the cost of information as I know it's a business. But, I really believe if DRF had real competition, they would figure out a way to sell their product at half the price and remain competitive.

Unfortunately, it's one in a long line of variables that make this game virtually impossible to beat and less likely to encourage friends or family to get involved.

Just overall disappointing.

[BlueShoe]

Originally Posted by David-LV

All Station Casinos Locations have the same & best comp and form policies.

If you never make a bet at Stations, you will never pay more then one dollar for a form.

When you reach the Platinum level on your card all forms are free.

You get 2% in comps for all WPS bets, and 4% in comps for all exotic bets.


http://www.stationcasinos.com/pdf/allnewbp_rules.pdf

________
David-LV

Thanks for the quick response, this is the kind of practical info I was looking for. Las Vegas has become so huge and spread out, with dozens of places with racebooks, that it is hard to keep up with things. From reading the Stations rules link, it would seem that the players card can be used at any Stations property, an advantage if moving around checking different books looking for the preferred one. Have been to about a third of the LV Stations, most time was at Boulders. Comped or discounted Forms is a big plus. Paying full retail for three editions of the DRF, which is sometimes required, can really add up over a long extended period of time.

[RXB]

Originally Posted by mountainman

Also, haven't sinister track execs and politicians been (rightfully) villified for expressing this EXACT logic when implementing usurious take hikes? And haven't we horseplayers taken EXTREME umbrage at this "the idiots are addicted and will still bet at ANY takeout rate" logic???????????????????

I was thinking the same thing. There are a few differences, however. DRF has steadily improved Formulator, at least, so those of us who use that product are getting enhancements in exchange for higher pricing. (Non-Formulator users, not so lucky.)

Most racetracks are carding steadily smaller fields and more of those awful state-bred races, so when they increase takeout they're charging more for a product that is getting worse rather than better.

[RXB]

One other thing: if someone goes to Hastings and wants to play just one or two tracks, he can print out a DRF (or Equibase) for $1.50 per track-- which is a better deal than he ever would've got in bygone years.

[calltopost]

Here is a question - which PDF report should I - as an infrequent but capable horseplayer - get for a day at the track?

Is there one that has track bias and key races included in the past performances? Does it also have Beyers? Jockey-trainer angles? I would like one with this extra info.

Also - any reason DRF doesn't have Classic PPs yet if the post positions are already drawn? I would like PPs for the 28th at Gulfstream and Santa Anita but they aren't up yet.

Thank you.

[mountainman]

Originally Posted by RXB

I was thinking the same thing. There are a few differences, however. DRF has steadily improved Formulator, at least, so those of us who use that product are getting enhancements in exchange for higher pricing. (Non-Formulator users, not so lucky.)

Most racetracks are carding steadily smaller fields and more of those awful state-bred races, so when they increase takeout they're charging more for a product that is getting worse rather than better.

True, but no track enjoys the virtual monopoly that drf is to some extent exploiting, and a 20% takeout hike would be met with riots. I think. Also, if such an extreme price hike can't be traced to some emerging increase in production cost, isn't drf doing this (at least in part) because they CAN?

[mountainman]

Originally Posted by RXB

which is a better deal than he ever would've got in bygone years.

Which also might be taken as proof that the purveyance (and, perhaps, enhancement) of computer pp's just isn't that costly to drf.

[cj]

Originally Posted by mountainman

True, but no track enjoys the virtual monopoly that drf is to some extent exploiting, and a 20% takeout hike would be met with riots. I think. Also, if such an extreme price hike can't be traced to some emerging increase in production cost, isn't drf doing this (at least in part) because they CAN?

DRF has a monopoly on the print edition, but only because nobody else wants to take on that losing quest. This price increase is for online products where I would guess they are far from a monopoly. There are plenty of competitors of which I'm aware...

BRIS
Equibase
Trackmaster
PostTimeDaily
HDW

Those are just off the top of my head. There may be more. If someone thinks the price isn't worth the value of the product, there are plenty of alternatives, no?

[mountainman]

Originally Posted by cj

DRF has a monopoly on the print edition, but only because nobody else wants to take on that losing quest. This price increase is for online products where I would guess they are far from a monopoly. There are plenty of competitors of which I'm aware...

BRIS
Equibase
Trackmaster
PostTimeDaily
HDW

Those are just off the top of my head. There may be more. If someone thinks the price isn't worth the value of the product, there are plenty of alternatives, no?

Not a true threat to drf amongst them. As oblique proof that drf monopolizes the market; Start a Trackmaster thread here and see how much response you get. No, anyway you cut it, drf knows full well they can jam this down our throats without fear of some mass exodus to 'Post Time Daily.'

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by mountainman

Or 2 bucks next time, then 3..4..5. And aren't the people wagering hundies a day buying lots of forms over the course of a season? So. we aren't really talking about one-single-dollar, are we? We are talking about a 20% hike-which is hefty by any standard.

Also, haven't sinister track execs and politicians been (rightfully) villified for expressing this EXACT logic when implementing usurious take hikes? And haven't we horseplayers taken EXTREME umbrage at this "the idiots are addicted and will still bet at ANY takeout rate" logic???????????????????

Good post overall, but must take sharp exception to the quoted sentence.

Well, I didn't have time to write 20 paragraphs. Obviously there's a limit, and I don't argue that DRF passed it. My point was more that DRF is legitimately struggling, not that they're rolling around in piles of extra money and then jacking up prices. Also, I really don't understand why someone who uses DRF would quit because of this increase, but if someone has to draw the line at this dollar, then fine.

[castaway01]

I want to add that in some hypothetical casino-esque world, it would be nice if all DRFs were provided by the racetracks or ADWs, because that would make sense to facilitate gambling. Everyone funds a great source for PPs, that is only surpassed by those like CJ who have their own figs or those willing to pay a greater price. However, we all know that's not the world we live in.

[cj]

Originally Posted by mountainman

Not a true threat to drf amongst them. As oblique proof that drf monopolizes the market; Start a Trackmaster thread here and see how much response you get. No, anyway you cut it, drf knows full well they can jam this down our throats without fear of some mass exodus to 'Post Time Daily.'

They are only not a threat because apparently the price isn't too high yet. You think if the price of a single card were $20 there would be a mass exodus? How about $15? $10? Obviously, there is a price somewhere that will kill them. Maybe this new raise is it, maybe it isn't. But they are certainly not a monopoly. I know amongst my customers, BRIS outnumbers Formulator users by a pretty decent margin and I started supporting Formulator only. I added BRIS later due to demand. I have not added others because there isn't enough demand, but I have had more than a few requests for HDW and PTD.

[jelly]

Originally Posted by castaway01

Well, I didn't have time to write 20 paragraphs. Obviously there's a limit, and I don't argue that DRF passed it. My point was more that DRF is legitimately struggling, not that they're rolling around in piles of extra money and then jacking up prices. Also, I really don't understand why someone who uses DRF would quit because of this increase, but if someone has to draw the line at this dollar, then fine.

How do you know that the DRF is struggling?

[proximity]

Originally Posted by mountainman

Not a bris fan, but do wish they could give drf a run for their money. With the exception of Joe Devivo, not a fan of the good folks at drf , either. Smug, inflexible and not pleasant to deal with behind the scenes. At least that's been my experience. Although it's a courtesty often extended other oddsmakers, they even refused me complimentary pp's to do mnr's morning line. Their stated reason was apprehension that i'd abuse the privilege by circulating the password amongst my friends. REALLY?? I'm a state-licensed official and well known as a man of my word.

excellent post.

the drf is just a good ol boyz network. going with moss (who still doesn't have pace figures for california fairs and pid) and not a guy like cj m (who already had figures on their own beyer scale) is just one example. and while i think you and nancy do a great job, mnr doesn't exist in mr crist's world. pid certainly doesn't. they don't understand full card simulcasting. nyra, so cal, cd, kee, and gp are about all that matter to them.

and that they're concerned that only YOU will circulate your password is a joke when this is their whole problem because certainly there is massive password sharing. i.t. is their problem. have unlimited plans that allow only one click per card (with an allowance of maybe 5 extra clicks a month) and they'd see a big increase in the number of accounts.