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Old 10-24-2020, 11:26 AM   #226
pandy
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It’s obvious that this horse is fast but has skin and/or joint problems. That’s the second time she’s been popped for drugs that cover inflammation issues. Bafferts ego and ambition seems to cloud his judgement. But it’s beyond him too. Because this horse has the talent they’ll breed her and most likely pass the problem down the line. Justify obviously had issues too but they’ll breed the crap out of him. Thus, the cycle will continue. I’m not a doctor but I understand the motivation of money and prestige. The life quality and health of the breed is being neglected at the horses, fans and bettors expense. Damn the health , a fast horse even for a few races can equal a whole lot of dollars...... spread around the industry. There’s a good reason this guy gets a pass so many times. Others “in line” are on this gravy train too. Connect the dots, follow the money. Yeah, these horses are fast but stamina, soundness and longevity have left the picture. And you have industry insiders and turf writers that try to deny this. Just look at what’s been going on for years. Gee, why are groups and the govt. up our ass????? They say. It’s just maddening.
Very true. As for the press, years ago the turf writers would have applied more scrutiny because you had strong racing coverage in all of the major newspapers. Now, most of the turf writers work for publishers that need the ad money from the actual industry, breeders, etc. Their hands are tied now.
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Old 10-24-2020, 01:37 PM   #227
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I wish everyone used hay oats and water. Until then this is just par the sport.
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Old 10-25-2020, 02:41 AM   #228
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Very true. As for the press, years ago the turf writers would have applied more scrutiny because you had strong racing coverage in all of the major newspapers. Now, most of the turf writers work for publishers that need the ad money from the actual industry, breeders, etc. Their hands are tied now.
This too.

I have said before that track and field is one of my other favorite sports. And it has the exact same problem. The media that covers the big meets are all in the tank. They can't say anything, and don't.

Almost all the big doping stories come from journalists who do not regularly cover the sport and often don't totally understand it. Which makes it easy for insiders to pick holes in the coverage. But that doesn't mean it isn't true.

Last edited by dilanesp; 10-25-2020 at 02:44 AM.
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Old 10-25-2020, 04:40 AM   #229
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This too.

I have said before that track and field is one of my other favorite sports. And it has the exact same problem. The media that covers the big meets are all in the tank. They can't say anything, and don't.

All of this really speaks to a larger problem, and that is instead of working to make things better, the society seems to be filled with "antis" who want to ban everything they've been propagandized about. So not wanting to add to the already burgeoning quantity of that, you've got the knee-jerkers on the other side furiously sweeping stuff under the rug.

The correct way to handle these things is to admit there are problems, then SHOW in your every word and action that you're trying to clean things up.

Instead, we're just on a see-saw. You go up, they go down. You go down, they go up. Nothing at all gets done because the goal is to spank and embarass, not to actually improve anything.....and then as everyone reaches the edge of the cliff, it becomes almost life-and-death to fight back against bans, so everyone doubles-down on the already dysfunctional dynamic that is going on. .

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Old 10-25-2020, 08:00 AM   #230
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Old 10-25-2020, 10:46 AM   #231
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All of this really speaks to a larger problem, and that is instead of working to make things better, the society seems to be filled with "antis" who want to ban everything they've been propagandized about. So not wanting to add to the already burgeoning quantity of that, you've got the knee-jerkers on the other side furiously sweeping stuff under the rug.

The correct way to handle these things is to admit there are problems, then SHOW in your every word and action that you're trying to clean things up.

Instead, we're just on a see-saw. You go up, they go down. You go down, they go up. Nothing at all gets done because the goal is to spank and embarass, not to actually improve anything.....and then as everyone reaches the edge of the cliff, it becomes almost life-and-death to fight back against bans, so everyone doubles-down on the already dysfunctional dynamic that is going on. .
I guess I must have missed all of this in the past 50 years of racing, but what bans? There have been thousands of drug test positives, thousands of excuses, and a handful of trainers have actually been punished past a slap on the wrist. Dutrow, and then Servis and Navarro (which took an undercover federal sting operation). A few other more minor figures also took a fall, but had to cheat so blatantly that it couldn't be ignored.

I guess I'm confused whose goals it is to "spank and embarrass"----the "antis"? Posts like yours are so frustrating because you're laboring mightily to make some political point when there is none. 99.9% of this is trainers and owners illegally drugging their horses, and 0.1% of the time someone actually gets punished. The rest gets swept under the rug for the "good of the game".
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Old 10-25-2020, 10:55 AM   #232
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I'm not a vet and know less than nothing about these drugs and treatments, but it seems to me like there are two distinct problems.

1. Guys that are using illegal drugs or methods to enhance performance that in most cases the labs can't find in tests (yet?).

2. Guys that are using any and all legal treatments to gain an edge but in some cases irresponsibly. That's what results in their positives.
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Old 10-25-2020, 01:33 PM   #233
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I have said before that track and field is one of my other favorite sports. And it has the exact same problem. The media that covers the big meets are all in the tank. They can't say anything, and don't.
Let me add NASCAR to this pile.
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Old 10-25-2020, 05:42 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by classhandicapper View Post
I'm not a vet and know less than nothing about these drugs and treatments, but it seems to me like there are two distinct problems.

1. Guys that are using illegal drugs or methods to enhance performance that in most cases the labs can't find in tests (yet?).

2. Guys that are using any and all legal treatments to gain an edge but in some cases irresponsibly. That's what results in their positives.

It is definitely this one.
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Old 10-25-2020, 05:57 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Psychotic Parakeet View Post
It is definitely this one.
yea.

and
  1. "Guys that are using illegal drugs or methods to enhance performance that in most cases the labs can't find in tests (yet?)."
  2. "Guys that are using any and all legal treatments to gain an edge but in some cases irresponsibly. That's what results in their positives."
  3. #3 BOTH!!!

"#1" is harder for a naïve person or fan or official to see. And a lot easier to 'break your neck' and 'look the other way' as an 'elephant in the room'.

"#2" is over-reaching(by a trainer) and unnecessarily sloppy. Especially, if "#1" is bringing you a multi-million dollar return.

However, the standards have to be consistent. You can't let overages slide. You also should communicate a 'grace-period' if you decide to suddenly start enforcing a picogram limit.

Then we can go back to pretending that "#1" isn't happening.
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Old 10-25-2020, 07:32 PM   #236
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Courier-Journal absolutely lambastes CHRB enabled Bob Baffert.


https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...ks/3741772001/
Wake me up when breeders in Kentucky stop profiting off it
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Old 10-25-2020, 07:57 PM   #237
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Wake me up when breeders in Kentucky stop profiting off it
So true
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Old 10-25-2020, 07:58 PM   #238
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yea.

and
  1. "Guys that are using illegal drugs or methods to enhance performance that in most cases the labs can't find in tests (yet?)."
  2. "Guys that are using any and all legal treatments to gain an edge but in some cases irresponsibly. That's what results in their positives."
  3. #3 BOTH!!!

"#1" is harder for a naïve person or fan or official to see. And a lot easier to 'break your neck' and 'look the other way' as an 'elephant in the room'.

"#2" is over-reaching(by a trainer) and unnecessarily sloppy. Especially, if "#1" is bringing you a multi-million dollar return.

However, the standards have to be consistent. You can't let overages slide. You also should communicate a 'grace-period' if you decide to suddenly start enforcing a picogram limit.

Then we can go back to pretending that "#1" isn't happening.
I would not doubt it would be your #3. Use something illegal to mask an overage of a legal one, and hope it either dilutes down the documented one -- and/or goes entirely undetected by race day. It's interesting how trainers are doubling as chemists these days.
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Old 10-26-2020, 09:37 AM   #239
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With Baffert, I really do think the corruption is far spread and most likely involves payoffs. When those 7 horses dropped dead and the CHRB didn't fine or suspend him, at all, that was the telltale sign that they were in on it. And it's possible that it goes all the way to some of the breeders or other industry insiders as well. We're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars that Baffert and his owners have raked in during his career. The reason why the cartels are so successful is because they pay good money to make people look the other way. This could be similar.
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Old 10-26-2020, 10:49 AM   #240
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With Baffert, I really do think the corruption is far spread and most likely involves payoffs. When those 7 horses dropped dead and the CHRB didn't fine or suspend him, at all, that was the telltale sign that they were in on it. And it's possible that it goes all the way to some of the breeders or other industry insiders as well. We're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars that Baffert and his owners have raked in during his career. The reason why the cartels are so successful is because they pay good money to make people look the other way. This could be similar.
And the Justify thing is absolutely clear that they are in on it.

Even if you believe, ultimately, that the medication Baffert used should have been legal, NOBODY but Baffert gets a SECRET hearing where they change the rule FOR HIM and the public isn't told.

If Joe Claiming Trainer gets that positive, MAYBE, he gets a lawyer and convinces the CHRB at an open hearing not to enforce the rule and suspend him. MAYBE.
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