stretch spill in Haskell (Merged: Haskell DQ)

[zico20]

Originally Posted by burnsy

I don’t bother following it but I think that’s optional and many don’t carry for fear of getting crap after the fact. Of course, today I bet a double involving the Haskell and regretted it after watching that. But that was a bad situation because it was obvious he wasn’t clear when he came in. It was a total clip job. Plus, a competitive horse like this one probably shifted by instinct to eyeball the leader. That’s why I thought all along if the jockeys don’t like the new rule, it’s probably a bad rule. The thing is using a whip to get that horse to not come in (lean on the competition) for a few more strides is the most humane thing for everyone out there. Like I said , I’m not a jockey but an educated guess tells me that a good portion of them think this new rule is dumb and ……… dangerous. Something like that will make them think twice, even on the big money days. Riders see something like that, the money doesn’t matter .

I read a few weeks back that the Jockey Guild was refusing to provide insurance at Monmouth because of the rule. Not sure they carried through with it but if they did this is a perfect example why!

I wonder if this would have happened if HRC had the blinkers on like last time.

[cj]

Originally Posted by zico20

The whip may or may not have made a difference this time, but something like this is exactly why jockeys won't ride there. Hopefully it won't take someone dying for them to change the stupid rule.

He carried a whip and could have used it.

[davew]

it looks like Mandaloun also came out and bumped Midnight Bourbon before clipping heels with Hot Rod Charlie.

[cj]

Originally Posted by davew

it looks like Mandaloun also came out and bumped Midnight Bourbon before clipping heels with Hot Rod Charlie.

He came out slightly, but not near the level of Hot Rod Charlie.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by cj

He carried a whip and could have used it.

would have been dq'd if he used it, correct?

[cj]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

would have been dq'd if he used it, correct?

No, you are allowed to use it for safety, and in any case first offense is a fine and rider suspension. I'm not so sure he wasn't just careless but if he truly thought he needed it, he could.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by cj

No, you are allowed to use it for safety, and in any case first offense is a fine and rider suspension. I'm not so sure he wasn't just careless but if he truly thought he needed it, he could.

If that is the case Prat should get at least 30 days, no excuse. came and almost killed someone.

[Augenj]

OK, I guess I'm not understanding this issue.

I see jockeys "steer" a horse coming out of the gate without using their whip.

I see jockeys "steer" a horse into the first turn around other horses without using their whip.

I see jockeys "steer" their horse on the backstretch, inside or outside of other horses without going to the whip.

Same thing around the far turn.

But they can't "steer" a horse in the stretch without using their whip?

Before the whip rule at MTH, jockeys would whip right handed until the horse started drifting in. Then they would go to the left whip to straighten it out to keep up its momentum rather than "steer" it back. Since there is no "whip momentum" now at MTH and since there is no right whip at MTH (or left), what's the issue?

Please don't tell me that turning its head slightly in the stretch slows it down. If that was the case, "steering" all around the track would back it up.

Personally, I don't care one way or another about the MTH whip rule. I may later if it affects my profits but statistically I don't see a change (yet).

[Scanman]

Originally Posted by Augenj

I didn't say anything about "yanking the horse's head". His own head was facing the dirt all through the stretch. If he had been situationally aware, he could have kept his horse straight. He probably thought he'd cleared the other horse and moved him towards the rail.

Well said Augenj.
1) All Prat had to do was guide HRC with his right rein to keep him straight. You would think a rider with his experience would be able to do that.
2) Situation awareness: He knew he was in the middle of the track, in that, he was on the crown. The likelihood of him drifting down/left should have been expected. The same thing happened last week when Ferrer got DQ'd. Generally, the same set of cirucmstances. Also, he should have known that he wasn't clear of Midnight Bourbon.
3) Like CJ said, if he felt it was a safety issue, he could have used the whip.
4) Just maybe O'Neil should have left the blinkers on, but I'm not blaming the horse. This was all on Prat.

My impression is that the "no strike for encouragement" rule exposes riders who are not strong enough to control their mount and want to use the whip as a crutch because they don't have the strength to keep their horse straight in the drive.

[zico20]

Originally Posted by Augenj

OK, I guess I'm not understanding this issue.

I see jockeys "steer" a horse coming out of the gate without using their whip.

I see jockeys "steer" a horse into the first turn around other horses without using their whip.

I see jockeys "steer" their horse on the backstretch, inside or outside of other horses without going to the whip.

Same thing around the far turn.

But they can't "steer" a horse in the stretch without using their whip?

Before the whip rule at MTH, jockeys would whip right handed until the horse started drifting in. Then they would go to the left whip to straighten it out to keep up its momentum rather than "steer" it back. Since there is no "whip momentum" now at MTH and since there is no right whip at MTH (or left), what's the issue?

Please don't tell me that turning its head slightly in the stretch slows it down. If that was the case, "steering" all around the track would back it up.

Personally, I don't care one way or another about the MTH whip rule. I may later if it affects my profits but statistically I don't see a change (yet).

When a jockey is steering at other times of the race the horse is not going full speed so steering a horse at the start or the first turn is fine but once you get into the stretch the horse is going to be asked for everything it has and to go as fast as it can. Steering a horse that is drifting in will most certainly slow it down more than hitting him left handed.

[zico20]

Originally Posted by Scanman

Well said Augenj.
1) All Prat had to do was guide HRC with his right rein to keep him straight. You would think a rider with his experience would be able to do that.
2) Situation awareness: He knew he was in the middle of the track, in that, he was on the crown. The likelihood of him drifting down/left should have been expected. The same thing happened last week when Ferrer got DQ'd. Generally, the same set of cirucmstances. Also, he should have known that he wasn't clear of Midnight Bourbon.
3) Like CJ said, if he felt it was a safety issue, he could have used the whip.
4) Just maybe O'Neil should have left the blinkers on, but I'm not blaming the horse. This was all on Prat.

My impression is that the "no strike for encouragement" rule exposes riders who are not strong enough to control their mount and want to use the whip as a crutch because they don't have the strength to keep their horse straight in the drive.

EXACTLY!!! That is why jockeys have and use a whip. The second Prat felt HRC was going to drift in he would have hit him left handed and this never would have happened. Except the rule doesn't allow that unless it is a safety issue. It wasn't a safety issue until he drifted way in and by that time it was too late to straighten him out.

[cj]

Originally Posted by zico20

When a jockey is steering at other times of the race the horse is not going full speed so steering a horse at the start or the first turn is fine but once you get into the stretch the horse is going to be asked for everything it has and to go as fast as it can. Steering a horse that is drifting in will most certainly slow it down more than hitting him left handed.

Except for the start, the horse is almost certainly going faster at any other point in a dirt race than it is in the stretch.

[Augenj]

Originally Posted by zico20

When a jockey is steering at other times of the race the horse is not going full speed so steering a horse at the start or the first turn is fine but once you get into the stretch the horse is going to be asked for everything it has and to go as fast as it can. Steering a horse that is drifting in will most certainly slow it down more than hitting him left handed.

So the horse is going to be asked to go as fast as it can by not whipping but by urging through something like "giddy up horsey" and pumping his head? The jockey has full control of the direction while he's doing that or maybe I've never seen one drift in under that type of encouragement in several decades.

[zico20]

Originally Posted by Augenj

So the horse is going to be asked to go as fast as it can by not whipping but by urging through something like "giddy up horsey" and pumping his head? The jockey has full control of the direction while he's doing that or maybe I've never seen one drift in under that type of encouragement in several decades.

You read my rebuttal wrong. Whipping the horse makes it go as fast as it can. Rarely does a jockey ask a horse to go as fast they can down the backstretch.

[Augenj]

Originally Posted by zico20

You read my rebuttal wrong. Whipping the horse makes it go as fast as it can. Rarely does a jockey ask a horse to go as fast they can down the backstretch.

I was talking about the stretch run, not the backstretch.