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Old 12-29-2017, 07:54 PM   #16
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What was the verdict of this story from 2000 regarding the TuP owner

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...g-investigated
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Old 12-31-2017, 04:24 PM   #17
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So a number of people voiced their frustration on their Twitter page, they deleted all the tweets off their page...show some backbone man.
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Old 12-31-2017, 04:42 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith View Post
**** that it was quintessential Turf Paradise implementation: the one way to screw it up. Yeah, let's make it so that a ten second wagering transaction requires you to push 500,000,000,000,000 buttons or talk to Gomer Pyle's significant other and hope you don't get shut out. It was okay if you were playing $20 win and a $5 exacta and a completely unnecessary obstacle to getting wagers in and getting them in on time the rest of the time.

But holy **** that hardly means revert back to believing that you are putting on such a great show with Robertino winning four a day at 2-5 in six horse fields that people will get up and haul off to the shitty OTB or the track in
typical sabotage in the form of absurd rationalization.
I have no idea what could possibly go through the mind of a politician that would cause one or more to remove on line as part of account wagering. What possible difference does it make to them? On the surface, why would it matter the method of placing a wager.
Unless of course this is Turf Paradise talking/lobbying the state legislature?. Their idiot management believing that if it wagering off track is made inconvenient, then bettors will go to the track. Sort of like what Texas did?
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Old 12-31-2017, 08:36 PM   #19
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Almost all of this focuses squarely on the tribal casinos and the power the state granted them when the casinos came around. The cliff notes version is that if the state allowed any sort of "competition" to the tribal casinos they would have a drastic change in their taxes they pay to the state. They view allowing ADW wagering as a threat, and as a result, it will not be getting anywhere soon.

I dealt with it personally, Arizona politics is a mess and the OTB systems there are miserable. Basically a couple terminals in bars or restaurants, no one has a clue about anything going on.

Funny thing is, phone wagering is very costly to the track based on who the provider is. My guess is they are losing money with the venture. Imagine, each phone call costing something like $1.60, with no minimum for a wager and I doubt they would have the foresight to seek volume breaks.

So, a customer would have to place a $20 bet at a minimum each time they called just to basically break even.
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Old 01-01-2018, 03:52 AM   #20
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I am an AZ resident and the whole thing is so strange. I frequent a few dumpy OTB's to place a few wagers, but other than that 90%+ I place offshore. I tried the whole adw thing again and got sick of calling in, they would also let you use an app if the adw offered one like TVG and TS do.

In Pima county (Tucson) you were not allowed to have an adw account period since they brought it back. It is my understanding this was due to some agreement with Tucson Greyhound Park.

I think monmouthparkjoe is correct that this has to do with the tribes rather than TuP itself. Although the weird Pima rule makes me think they could screw it up even without that barrier.

As I age it is becoming clearer that all this world is about is people argueing over YOUR money. I do feel a tad guilty that my money doesnt go into the pools but what do they expect will happen? I can't drive 20 miles to an otb that opens at 11am each day and bet on chopped up cards of their choosing. Most require that you make a drink and/or food purchase as well making it damn near impossible to place your wagers and leave quickly. I dont think the otbs will last forever..if you yelp any bar with an otb here it is complaining about the otb customers squatting, cussing and yelling. It seems the only long term otb bars are shitty bars to begin with. There were some nice ones in tempe and a few attempts in chandler but they all removed the otb eventually.

I could go on forever.
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:21 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by thespaah View Post
When will this industry, wagering on horse racing. wise up. A few years ago when the horsemen refused to deal with Colonial Downs in good faith, they were successful in shutting down horse racing in the entire state. Included were all ADW accounts and all of the Virginia OTB sites.
And why did they do this? One reason I read was the horsemen from Maryland were upset there was a gap created in the Maryland schedule to accommodate the Colonial meeting. The other was the horsemen wanted bigger purses. The money was not there. So instead of 3/4's a loaf, they got no loaf.
So they walked. Screwed the fans and the track's operators. Plus there was some development slated for the area surrounding the track property.
Horsemen have far too much clout. Ideally, there should be a balance of interest between the track management, horsemen and of course US
That's one opinion.

From what I remember, Colonial wanted to replace their normal meet with a boutique meet, concentrating the purse money in stakes races, which would have ended up largely in the hands of national horsemen at the expense of the locals. Colonial is an island unto itself, you stable there and pretty much that is where you have to race. So horsemen probably felt why go through the trouble of relocating for a meet that would largely be aimed at others.
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:22 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WP1981 View Post
I am an AZ resident and the whole thing is so strange. I frequent a few dumpy OTB's to place a few wagers, but other than that 90%+ I place offshore. I tried the whole adw thing again and got sick of calling in, they would also let you use an app if the adw offered one like TVG and TS do.

In Pima county (Tucson) you were not allowed to have an adw account period since they brought it back. It is my understanding this was due to some agreement with Tucson Greyhound Park.

I think monmouthparkjoe is correct that this has to do with the tribes rather than TuP itself. Although the weird Pima rule makes me think they could screw it up even without that barrier.

As I age it is becoming clearer that all this world is about is people argueing over YOUR money. I do feel a tad guilty that my money doesnt go into the pools but what do they expect will happen? I can't drive 20 miles to an otb that opens at 11am each day and bet on chopped up cards of their choosing. Most require that you make a drink and/or food purchase as well making it damn near impossible to place your wagers and leave quickly. I dont think the otbs will last forever..if you yelp any bar with an otb here it is complaining about the otb customers squatting, cussing and yelling. It seems the only long term otb bars are shitty bars to begin with. There were some nice ones in tempe and a few attempts in chandler but they all removed the otb eventually.

I could go on forever.
Well at one time OTB's had their place and your right, I worked at McDuffy's for Turf Paradise in 92/93' and it was a great place, Stadium Club in Chandler, the Dallas House in phoenix, solid bars. I dont even recognize the places on their website, there are a total of 6 it appears to serve the entire 2 million people of the east valley.

If I can continue to play contests and occasionally make a big bet at an OTB then I guess I could still play, but the day to day plays are kinda gone.
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Old 01-01-2018, 02:10 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by MonmouthParkJoe View Post
Almost all of this focuses squarely on the tribal casinos and the power the state granted them when the casinos came around. The cliff notes version is that if the state allowed any sort of "competition" to the tribal casinos they would have a drastic change in their taxes they pay to the state. They view allowing ADW wagering as a threat, and as a result, it will not be getting anywhere soon.

I dealt with it personally, Arizona politics is a mess and the OTB systems there are miserable. Basically a couple terminals in bars or restaurants, no one has a clue about anything going on.

Funny thing is, phone wagering is very costly to the track based on who the provider is. My guess is they are losing money with the venture. Imagine, each phone call costing something like $1.60, with no minimum for a wager and I doubt they would have the foresight to seek volume breaks.

So, a customer would have to place a $20 bet at a minimum each time they called just to basically break even.
Yes. Indian ( sorry not going PC here) gaming in many states also involved powerful political influences. Once the politicians see the flow of revenue to the the state, they sit up and take notice.
Like any powerful lobbying entity, the Indian Gaming operations get what they want.
For example, here in NC, the Eastern Band of the Cherokees have had a casino for 20 years. For the first 15 of those, it was electronic gaming only.
NC State law has some of the oddest gaming regulations. Given that NC is n the buckle of the Bible Belt, this comes as no surprise.
Games of "chance" were banned. As were any games where "skill and dexterity" were not required.
Well, the casino is immensely popular. Its slammed every day. Weekends, its crazy busy. its in a perfect location. Surrounded by states that ban casinos, TN.SC and GA. its a target rich environment.
Anyway, the Tribe went to the State legislature to open up live gaming, table games. Real dealers. They lobbied the state and despite the howls of protest from the far right religious conservatives, even the GOP controlled legislature could not resist the temptation of the additional revenue.
The casino now has live gaming tables. A lot of them.
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Old 01-01-2018, 02:17 PM   #24
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That's one opinion.

From what I remember, Colonial wanted to replace their normal meet with a boutique meet, concentrating the purse money in stakes races, which would have ended up largely in the hands of national horsemen at the expense of the locals. Colonial is an island unto itself, you stable there and pretty much that is where you have to race. So horsemen probably felt why go through the trouble of relocating for a meet that would largely be aimed at others.
As memory serves, the horsemen also balked at the prospect of lower purses. The track management explained the numbers. The horsemen weren't buying the management's stance.
As far as stabling horses, from what I have read, this is actually a problem at many tracks. Some trainers will apply and receive stall space and in some of those stalls are horses that the stable has zero intention of running at that meet.
Anyway, what occurred at Colonial was damned shame. Its a nice clean well run facility. Yeah,. its 40 miles from Richmond, and 30 mins from Norfolk, but so what?
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:27 PM   #25
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Well at one time OTB's had their place and your right, I worked at McDuffy's for Turf Paradise in 92/93' and it was a great place, Stadium Club in Chandler, the Dallas House in phoenix, solid bars. I dont even recognize the places on their website, there are a total of 6 it appears to serve the entire 2 million people of the east valley.

If I can continue to play contests and occasionally make a big bet at an OTB then I guess I could still play, but the day to day plays are kinda gone.
I have a buddy that manages the otb at nates 3rd base in chandler. Has its fair share of riff raff but its on a lake with the popular valley luna next to it so I think they survive off of that traffic. Stadium Club was a good spot but the theme is most of them go under. There was a nice bar off of kyrene and ray that opened up with one and went under 6-7 years ago. They even made an entire disconnected room for it but the waitresses would all tell me the otb patrons would order water with a lemon and use the table sugar packets to make lemonade and pay for nothing.

Skip and Jans was a stinky dump but seemed to be doing well due to billiards. I went to the costco there last week and saw it is shut down.

They arent going to have a choice soon other than an adw.
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:52 AM   #26
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That's one opinion.

From what I remember, Colonial wanted to replace their normal meet with a boutique meet, concentrating the purse money in stakes races, which would have ended up largely in the hands of national horsemen at the expense of the locals. Colonial is an island unto itself, you stable there and pretty much that is where you have to race. So horsemen probably felt why go through the trouble of relocating for a meet that would largely be aimed at others.
That's another opinion.

Colonial was trying to copy success and create a Saratoga of the south. Horseplayers like to bet on boutique meets. Why these local horsemen think they are entitled to a job is beyond me. Nobody guaranteed me any of my jobs in my life.

I donít understand this ďout of stateĒ mentality that they have. If Iím going to hold a golf tournament, I want players like Justin Thomas, Dustin Johnson, Phil Mickelson & Tiger Woods to play in it. If Iím going to hold a t-bred meet, I want trainers like Todd Pletcher, Steve Asmussen, William Mott & Chad Brown. These people bring in interest and money. The local horsemen would like to run endless rounds of low-level state-bred claiming races just so they can make ends meet. If these people cant breed and train a decent horse, bleep em. Who wants to bet on that crap.

Unfortunately, Colonialís plan was doomed from the start, not just by the local horsemen. They needed a full-time casino to be part of their business plan, which the idiotic legislature wasnít going to give them.
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Old 01-03-2018, 01:32 AM   #27
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Old 01-04-2018, 08:15 PM   #28
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Turf Paradise
Attention Arizona Phone Bet Account Holders:

Effective January 9, 2018, all Phone Betting Accounts for Arizona residents will no longer be active. This includes phone betting accounts with TVG, Twin Spires, Express Bet and Turf Paradise Bets.
Contact your Phone Bet Provider to get the return of your money.

Dear Arizona Phone Bet Account Holder:
First, Turf Paradise apologizes for any inconvenience the cancellation of Phone Betting services in Arizona has caused you.
Due to strict gaming regulations, we were never able to offer Advanced Deposit Wagering (ADW) the way you the customer deserved: with full Internet access and the ability to use Phone Apps. So, rather than enhancing your experience by creating more and easier ways to play and creating new fans, it resulted in quite the opposite: Phone Betting cut into Turf Paradiseís on-track and Off Track Betting (OTB) handles, the two sources from which we derive benefit for our purse account and our business.
With Phone betting, less money was being wagered on-track and thru our OTB system. Thus, less money was available for purses and our business.

In the three years we have conducted Phone Betting, approximately $3.6 million has been taken from the Arizona horse racing industry.

Turf Paradise thanks our Phone Betting partners: TVG, Twin Spires and Express Bet. They have been helpful at every turn of the road; they have been excellent to work with and they understand why we are making this decision.
Each Arizona Phone Bet Account customer should contact your Phone Bet provider to get the return of your money.
Turf Paradise is mindful of its fans: the sport does not exist without the horseplayers. We regret any inconvenience this cancellation may cause. We want you to continue to be patrons of Turf Paradise horse racing, on-track and thru our OTB system.
Again, this decision was not made lightly. But it was a decision that had to be made in the best interest of Arizona horse racing.
Please feel free to call or email me.

Vincent Francia
General Manager

Questions or comments
Version: Mobile | Web
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Old 01-04-2018, 08:17 PM   #29
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Lol at them claiming it wasnt good enough for us without internet and then saying the real reason is they made less money when people had an option to play elsewhere.

Such a fail state.
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:26 PM   #30
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So, let me get this straight. If I have an ADW account in any state besides Arizona I'll be able to bet on Turf Paradice. But if I live in Arizona, I have to trudge on down to the track or the nearest OTB.
Betting on Turf Paradice from the comfort of my own home. It doesn't get any better than that!
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