What will be DMR's cut of Betfair's trading on the Pacific Classic today?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by Charlie D

ignore "rat" mike, it's an error in editing which i have now corrected

I thought it was a British term I wasn't aware of - thanks for the bookie/betfair info.

[Charlie D]

As stated elsewhere, there is nothing to fear from exchange betting. All the guys at TOC ( or whatever Group decides who gets what ) need to do, is ensure they get a fair slice of the pie. Which btw, i think will happen should exchanges be allowed in USA.

[gm10]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

I guess the model works in the U.K. and other parts of Europe, but it would fail miserably in the United States--people couldn't fathom paying $30 to get into the horse track.

Good point.
How much do you pay to get into, say, Saratoga?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by gm10

Good point.
How much do you pay to get into, say, Saratoga?

General admission is $3.

[gm10]

Originally Posted by Charlie D

As tated elsewhere, there is nothing to fear from exchange betting. All the guys at TOC ( or whatever Group decides who gets what ) need to do, is ensure they get a fair slice of the pie. Which btw, i think will happen should exchanges be allowed in USA.

One thing to keep in mind is that it would introduce a whole new type of bet into the country: in-running betting. I think half of the bets on British races are placed in-running.

In-running betting is definitely a growth area in the US, I don't think it is even possible right now.

[gm10]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

General admission is $3.

Cool ... that's on par with the French

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Originally Posted by Seabiscuit@AR

Foolish Pleasure

Australia has tote betting and fixed odds betting. Tote turnover has always been reasonably good in Australia

Betfair got its Australian licence back in 2006

http://www.theage.com.au/news/Busine...259981838.html

In the 2004-05 season tote turnover on Australian racing was 8.8 billion
In the 2005-06 season tote turnover on Australian racing was 8.8 billion
In the 2008-09 season tote turnover on Australian racing was 9.8 billion

In the 2004-05 season total turnover both tote and fixed odds was 11.7 billion
In the 2005-06 season total turnover both tote and fixed odds was 11.7 billion
In the 2008-09 season total turnover both tote and fixed odds was 14.4 billion

So most of the betting growth in Australian racing in the last few years has been with fixed odds betting. At the same time tote turnover is not dropping like a stone as people were predicting before Betfair started up in Australia. In fact betting on horses has been very healthy since Betfair started up

If we compared USA tote figures from 2005 or 2006 to the present what would be the drop? 20%? 30%?

US Handle 2004: $15,836,000,000
US Handle 2009 $12,973,000,000 Down 18%

Australia Tote Handle Up 11% for the same period

I guess Australia didn't suffer through the world wide recession like the USA did. Or maybe exchange betting created more interest in horse racing.

[rwwupl]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

What does "rat" mean in your post?

Dean T, You were right, Just sit back and watch. It's much more fun,
__________________

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by rwwupl

Dean T, You were right, Just sit back and watch. It's much more fun,
__________________

The word "rat" was randomly placed in his post - I asked what he meant by it. It was a typo - glad the exchange gave you so much enjoyment.

[Foolish Pleasure]

I guess Australia didn't suffer through the world wide recession like the USA did.

Very sorry but they don't have the same economic cycles as here.

WHy does an uneducated moron such as myself know this but you and the other supposed folks with a brain don't?



need look no further than Canada to see another country that didn't and for largely the same reasons.


Australia is a commodity based country, like Canada, like some of the Scandanavian countries and others.

When commodities skyrocket they benefit immensely. In fact it is inverse in some regards, as US dollars get cheaper as our economy tanks that makes commodities more expensive since they are traded in dollars and places like Australia benefit.


They have nothing close to the same economic cycle that the US does.


Guess what that means? Right, Australia did not have the increases in handle the US saw from 2000-2005 either but not posting that is painting the rosiest picture possible.


Which I already posted but I guess it must have been invisible.




and right like the UK, Australia already had fixed odds betting.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by Foolish Pleasure

Try educating yourself.


They didn't-

Australia is a commodity based country, like Canada, like some of the Scandanavian countries.


How do commodity based countries do when commodities sky rocket in price?


They sure don't suffer like the more balanced economies of the world do like in the US.

The Australian economy certainly slowed with the downturn in commodity prices (demand) in the back half of 2008 and into 2009 (as China goes so goes Australia). With the resurgence of China, commodity prices (specifically met coal and iron ore) have come back strongly and are certainly much higher now than in 2004. The Aussie banking system, which is one of the world's strongest, weathered the global downturn very well. And I believe tourism softened a bit in late 2008 and into 2009. So I think overall there was a slowdown, which I think is what you were saying, but nothing like what was experienced in the United States and some European countries. Why do you think horse racing handle has fared so well in Australia (vs other major countries) since 2004--gambling growth has far outpaced economic growth?

[Foolish Pleasure]

Oil is 100% higher than 10yrs ago,

is Australian handle?


Australian handle has nowhere near kept pace with commodity prices the last 10yrs

it did not keep up with their inflation rate.

and since the Australian economy is based on commodities,

there is nothing to see here.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by Foolish Pleasure

Oil is 100% higher than 10yrs ago,

is Australian handle?


Australian handle has nowhere near kept pace with commodity prices the last 10yrs

and since the Australian economy is based on commodities,

there is nothing to see here.

That's nice, but Australian oil exports are so de minimus that they're irrelevant. Their two main commodity exports are iron ore and coal. Granted as oil has risen, so have those two commodities. But from your prior posts about a poster needing to educate himself, I thought you'd want to be more accurate.

[Foolish Pleasure]

I can only post the sky is blue so many times.

SHows how ignorant this can get when a guy posts an either or like it must be Betfair or the economy and his choice of Betfair is so obviously incorrect.

Wanna nitpick fine, have a blast.

The Aussie handle did not keep up with local inflation,
not even close-touting it as successful when it can't keep up with inflation is ludicrous.








Excellent points- focusing on the UK and AUS where they already had fixed odds betting and success although largely non existant or marginal at best is being touted as savior like,

ignore France and South Africa, places much closer to the US being heavily reliant on overpriced tote without huge bookie networks already offering fixed odds. Where Betfair has basically drained the tote.







Likewise Betfair offers in running betting on many, many UK and Australian races,

something they will not be offering on US racing again anytime soon-


a product that is not obviously able to be synthesized in the tote.


but of course that is responsible for how much of these ultra rosy turnover numbers?



The sky is blue.

[Saratoga_Mike]

FP - you seem on edge.