WHy can't Europe produce a real racing form?

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Foolish Pleasure

There is zero doubt about that.

GMAFBA their form hasn't changed in 50yrs.



Whatajoke. Right God only knows why they are a half century behind in providing the information.

Have a close look at this guy because you can learn something very valuable from him. This is why valid issues have such a hard time making it through to racing management because this is the sort of individual they have to deal with daily. Eventually crap like this gets overwhelming and it becomes harder and harder to want to do anything extra. You ask me what's really wrong with racing and in my top two is the fact that there are way too many guys like this.

[Foolish Pleasure]

How do you figure?


here you are just like the racing execs trying to justify caveman like information.



so very sorry that you are obviously WRONG and likewise fanatical about it to the point of taking personal shots.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by Foolish Pleasure

How do you figure?


here you are just like the racing execs trying to justify caveman like information.



so very sorry that you are obviously WRONG and likewise fanatical about it to the point of taking personal shots.

He means you can't be taken seriously - even if what you happen to be saying is true - because you come across so over the top.

[Foolish Pleasure]

Yep I am what is wrong with racing.

It's not the inept marketing, the ridiculous pricing,

the worthless executives,

the incompetent distribution,

the drugs and rigged races,

the pack racing surfaces,

the touts shills authors and leeches,


no it is people like me because the poor racing executive cannot possibly deal with someone who actually takes their business more seriously than they do.


beyond a joke.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by Foolish Pleasure

Yep I am what is wrong with racing.

It's not the inept marketing, the ridiculous pricing,

the worthless executives,

the incompetent distribution,

the drugs and rigged races,

the pack racing surfaces,

the touts shills authors and leeches,


no it is people like me because the poor racing executive cannot possibly deal with someone who actually takes their business more seriously than they do.


beyond a joke.

wow.

[Foolish Pleasure]

this predisposition that less objective information is better is ludicrous.

live in a world where the objective information is in the prices to the nth degree,

living means figuring out where it is wrong,

if you don't give the idiots and their machines limited objective information from the outset,

guess what?

It can't be wrong. Which means the unlimited liquidity that comes with fading the objective information is gone. I can't bet thousands of dollars in a race where the form is wrong IF THERE IS NO FORM.

Play games -oh yes it was so much better in the old days-

no it wasn't. One of the best single things that ever happened was Beyer putting speed figures in a form so anyone with a functioning brain could fade the masses when they were wrong.

[OTM Al]

Your writing has a familiar look to it. Post over at HRI ever?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Your writing has a familiar look to it. Post over at HRI ever?

You may be on to something, but this guy needs serious help.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

You may be on to something, but this guy needs serious help.

Mike, someone tried to access my account today. This might not even be the real poster. He might have been able to crack the real poster's password. Otherwise, yeah.....

[Bullet Plane]

I don't see much difference between the DRF and the Racing Post. Some format changes - that's about it.

[gm10]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

There are more variables and the information isn't as robust. So for a full-time player, isn't it easier to make money in the UK than in the states? Note I said for a full-time player, not a novice.

I think the information is rock solid. They take their data very seriously, and i mean very seriously. And there actually is a lot of information in the paper. It's just not presented all that well. You sometimes end up looking at 5 different places in the same paper just for one horse.

I am not sure if making money is easier in the UK. It's a good question. Most of the data is there but not easily digested.

Also, due to the private nature of many stables, inside information is definitely more of a factor, so I suppose knowing the right people gives you a bid advantage.

Most importantly, I think that you have infinitely more betting options in the UK. Antepost, in-running, arbitraging, trading, tote, exotics, exchanges, etc etc. Last year I backed RA to win HOY @ 7/5 and Zenyatta to win HOY @ 7/5 somewhere else. Doesn't get easier than that.

Personally I think betting US races from within the UK is easiest of all. On the one hand, you get the benefits of good data that is ready to be automated and analyzed, on the other hand you get bigger, fixed odds on Betfairon top of access to the American tote and British bookmakers ( the latter only for the big races). If it was purely UK tote vs US tote I would vote UK tote because of the reason you mentioned.

[gm10]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

Agreed.
I grew up on UK and Irish racing.
Like it just as much as the US equivalent.
I especially miss NH racing at this time of year, but home is in California.

Btw, nice to see a jockey (Tony McCoy) winning the top sports personality award in the UK the other night. First time ever for the sport, if I'm not mistaken. Not many countries would give such a prestigious award to someone from the sport of horse racing.

A great achievement for a superb athlete. Well deserved.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by gm10

I think the information is rock solid. They take their data very seriously, and i mean very seriously. And there actually is a lot of information in the paper. It's just not presented all that well. You sometimes end up looking at 5 different places in the same paper just for one horse. .

I was at Galway this past summer, and I found that to be the case. Of course I wasn't there to bet seriously, so I guess I was too lazy to really look for the information. And sorry about FP's outbursts.

[NJ Stinks]

Originally Posted by Foolish Pleasure

....and they have better horses, better racing, name it, it is better in Europe just ask them.

That's right, they do.

IMO the thing that stands out the most is that the public really cares about horseracing in Europe. Unlike here. Tony McCoy is a great example of that. Hell, over here we couldn't even get Zenyatta past that skier. Give me a break.

I was told (and believe now that I have more experience over there) that punters over there rely on their own eyes more than anything else.

Anyway, a day at the races in Europe is more like an event if only because the meetings don't go on and on and on like they do here. And good luck trying to play a bunch simulcasts between races. After checking out the horses in the paddock, it's over to the on-track bookies to shop around for the best price available on your selection. The last step before making your bet is to check the price on the Tote and compare it with that of the on-track bookies but even that may be a bad move because you may miss an even better price on your pick as bookies adjust their odds based on their exposure in the race.

Toss in the fact that the courses are so varied (many end with a run uphill to the wire that insure a "true test") and there is just smorgasboard of factors that make the day special.

Finally, a day at the races in Europe last 3 to 3.5 hours usually. (No absurd 6 or 7 hours to get to the big race there.) Their racing fans are left wanting more after the last race. So it's not surprising that some racing fans over there actually opt to hang around after the last race and chat about all things racing over a few beers at a bar before heading home.
_______________________________

Here's something I saw close up one day at Brighton. The third race was a sellers race (think claiming race). Only after a sellers race the winner is immediately sold at auction in the paddock. Now that may not sound all that interesting to you but I found it totally interesting to see what the winner of the race was really worth. A small thing to be sure but it added a spice to the day at the races.

[gm10]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

I was at Galway this past summer, and I found that to be the case. Of course I wasn't there to bet seriously, so I guess I was too lazy to really look for the information. And sorry about FP's outbursts.

Never been there - was it good??