Religion II

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Why would you ask such a foolish question?

It's not the question that's foolish. It's the practice. People have tried to pray their children back to health with fatal consequences for the kids. You said "All mental, psychological and physical sickness share one common cause: Sin." A foolish statement like that opens up the possibility that you are one of those who would not take a child to a hospital but would merely pray for them. Such people should be locked up and some have been.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-23167489

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Newsflash: Peter isn't Jesus.

You mean the entire NT does not come directly from Jesus? That Jesus does not speak through Peter?

Originally Posted by boxcar

Depends. No cases are alike.

On what?

Originally Posted by boxcar

That sounds like a plan. Maybe by then you can become more certain as to whether you're a being or not.

As I pointed out we can never be 100% certain of anything. Right now I'm leaning toward the boson theory.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

You mean the entire NT does not come directly from Jesus? That Jesus does not speak through Peter?
On what?
As I pointed out we can never be 100% certain of anything. Right now I'm leaning toward the boson theory.

You have a mouse in your pocket? "We can never be..."? Besides...you can't be certain either about the "boson theory".

The whole bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit. But this doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit dictated his words through his prophets and apostles.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You have a mouse in your pocket?

Why would I put my mouse in my pocket? Would a mouse even work if it was in someone's pocket? I mean the wireless kind.

Originally Posted by boxcar

"We can never be..."? Besides...you can't be certain either about the "boson theory".

I know. That's the beauty of it. It means Socrates was right.

Originally Posted by boxcar

The whole bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit. But this doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit dictated his words through his prophets and apostles.

Not the smart move. Opens it up to all sorts of errors and misinterpretations. That explains a lot.

[Actor]

We found a trail that lead up a hill and made a sharp turn to the right just before the summit. We suspected that Charlie was using the trail. I set one of my machine guns up at the top just beyond the turn so it could fire right down the trail. I deployed the rest of the platoon on the uphill side of the trail. Then we waited.

That afternoon Charlie started coming up the trail, single file. When their point man was about ten feet away he saw us. Without me giving the order my machine gunner opened fire. I have not been able to face raw hamburger since. Of course the rest of the platoon opened up too. Some of the V.C. ran downhill and some uphill. The one who ran uphill ran right into us and we killed them all. We got some who ran downhill, we could tell by the blood trails, but of course Charlie dragged them away. But Charlie could not drag away those who ran uphill. We counted those, doubled the number, and I reported that as our count for the mission.

So boxcar, or anyone else, does that violate the commandment “thou shalt not murder”?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Why would I put my mouse in my pocket? Would a mouse even work if it was in someone's pocket? I mean the wireless kind.
I know. That's the beauty of it. It means Socrates was right.
Not the smart move. Opens it up to all sorts of errors and misinterpretations. That explains a lot.

Very smart move. After all, man isn't a machine. The miracle of inspiration no one can understand but this miracle allows men to use their writing styles and their own words to convey exactly what God wants them to without violating man's free will. You and I will never understand this, so don't even try. But even Jesus agrees with me on this issue, which I think is really Kool.

John 16:13
13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
NASB

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

After all, man isn't a machine.

Wrong. Man is a machine, albeit a very complex one. This fact drives much of modern medicine. Think of artificial hearts, organ transplants, blood transfusions.

You have not answered my question about faith healing.

Originally Posted by boxcar

The miracle of inspiration no one can understand ...

There's nothing to understand. There are over 30,000 denominations of the Christian religion alone. The odds that yours is the one true religion are 30,000 to 1 against you.


https://lunchboxsw.wordpress.com/200...er-study-fail/

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Wrong. Man is a machine, albeit a very complex one. This fact drives much of modern medicine. Think of artificial hearts, organ transplants, blood transfusions.

You have not answered my question about faith healing.
There's nothing to understand. There are over 30,000 denominations of the Christian religion alone. The odds that yours is the one true religion are 30,000 to 1 against you.


https://lunchboxsw.wordpress.com/200...er-study-fail/

30,000 to 1? That's all? Piece of cake to beat those odds compared to the probability of order to the universe v. no order in an evolved one.

https://www.icr.org/article/155/

And I did answer your dumb question about faith healing. I gave the inane question the answer it deserved.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

30,000 to 1? That's all? Piece of cake to beat those odds compared to the probability of order to the universe v. no order in an evolved one.

https://www.icr.org/article/155/

There is order in our evolved universe. What makes you think there is not? Do you think the law of gravity has no order?

YouTube

Originally Posted by boxcar

And I did answer your dumb question about faith healing. I gave the inane question the answer it deserved.

Argumentum ad lapidem! Appeal to the stone!

Originally Posted by boxcar

All mental, psychological and physical sickness share one common cause: Sin.

If that is true then why are the treatments administered by doctors for mental, psychological and physical sickness equally effective for believers and unbelievers alike? And for Christians and non-Christians alike?

Do you not believe in the germ theory of disease?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

There is order in our evolved universe. What makes you think there is not? Do you think the law of gravity has no order?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDdn0UPDjmk
Argumentum ad lapidem! Appeal to the stone!

If that is true then why are the treatments administered by doctors for mental, psychological and physical sickness equally effective for believers and unbelievers alike? And for Christians and non-Christians alike?

Do you not believe in the germ theory of disease?

Because sin has real effects on body, mind and soul?

And there is no more order (or purpose or design or intentionality) to the universe than there is in a living cell. It's all an accident. You only think you see order. Remember what the world famous biologist (his name escapes me at the moment) told his students and colleagues about seeing design (purpose, order intentionality) in cells? Essentially he said, Don't believe your lying, deceiving eyes. That's my advice to you, too. Gotta fight the strong temptation.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Because sin has real effects on body, mind and soul?

I asked you, in Religion I, to define sin. After much deflecting you finally pointed to some passage which said that sin was disobedience of the law. I assume that the law referenced is Old Testament law. Old Testament law commands us to

• kill witches
• kill homosexuals
• kill those who gather firewood on the sabbath
• kill women who are not virgins on their wedding night
• force rape victims to marry their rapist
• not eat schrimp
• not eat bacon
• etc

Can you point us to any evidence that not killing witches, homosexuals, Sunday firewood gatherers, or non-virgins causes "mental, psychological or physical illness"? Or that not forcing a rape victim to marry her rapist has the same effect?

I love shrimp and I love bacon. I don't recall having any "mental, psychological or physical illness" from eating it.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And there is no more order (or purpose or design or intentionality) to the universe than there is in a living cell. It's all an accident. You only think you see order. Remember what the world famous biologist (his name escapes me at the moment) told his students and colleagues about seeing design (purpose, order intentionality) in cells? Essentially he said, Don't believe your lying, deceiving eyes. That's my advice to you, too. Gotta fight the strong temptation.

Socrates said the beginning of wisdom is the definition of terms. We need to define order, purpose, design, intentionality and accident. If we go to M-W we find little help since words tend to have more than one definition and we need to agree which definition we use. E.g., the order a series of events is not the same as an order given by a superior. The former is an arrangement, the latter is a command.

Note that random and accidental are not synonyms. Uranium 238 has a half life of 4.5 billion years. That mean that in a sample U238 half the nuclei in the sample will decay in 4.5 billion years. That's not random. But exactly which nuclei will decay is random.

Take a sheet of paper and write down Maxwell's laws, Newton's laws, the Schrodinger equation, Einstein's equations and a few others. You basically have all of physics.

The formation of the universe is not random. The four primal forces guarantee that some of the energy of the big bang will become matter, that hydrogen atoms will form. From that hydrogen stars will form. Galaxies will form. Stars will supernova and heavier elements will form. Eventually some planets will form in the Goldilocks zone of their star, drawing in amino acids and other organic molecules from space, forming seas of primordial soup and abiogenesis will occur. Once that happens a new force, natural selection, enters the picture. Natural selection guarantees that more complex life forms will evolve. The process is not random. Which stars eventually host complex life forms is random but the process itself is not.

[Actor]

A researcher proposes to eliminate the need for cosmological space-time singularity and argues that the current expansion phase was preceded by contraction.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1127105935.htm

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

It's not the question that's foolish. It's the practice. People have tried to pray their children back to health with fatal consequences for the kids. You said "All mental, psychological and physical sickness share one common cause: Sin." A foolish statement like that opens up the possibility that you are one of those who would not take a child to a hospital but would merely pray for them. Such people should be locked up and some have been.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-23167489

So are the acts of prayer and medical attention mutually exclusive to one another?

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by Actor

Wrong. Man is a machine,

https://lunchboxsw.wordpress.com/200...er-study-fail/

We really are becoming alienated and detached from our true selves if we believe that.
The biomechanics of man's physical body are apparent.
Let's not confuse that with our total essence.
No machine will ever be able to experience or express true love no matter how far we are able to develop artificial intelligence.