Past Performances 1960's - Page 2 - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Hedevar · 06-30-2010, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Figman

46Zilzal
THe DRF columnist that you spoke with doesn't know what he talking about!
Although a long ways to go, there are two months of 1963 & 1967 already recorded. You can see the whole past DRF here:
http://kdl.kyvl.org/drf/

Thanks Figman these were great to see. Brought back many memories.

SMOO · 06-30-2010, 09:24 AM

I'd like to know what Seabiscuit's best beyer rating was.

bobbyt62 · 07-05-2010, 02:25 AM

many replies here are half right/half wrong, based on semantics, largely. if the original poster wants drf (the company itself) to produce a past performance block like you'd see in the form now (or even "then") then they don't back before 1976, vis a vis the "form look" with running lines, etc. they do go before that for finish positions and some other basic stuff, but you likely wouldn't care for it. the records, i.e. "form" (the computerized records, not the archived papers) were erased because until recent decades, computer storage was not cheap and demand for past performance data from say, 13 years ago, was VERY limited. so again, DRF inc. cannot "call up" the "full traditional" pp's of any horse before 1976. they DO have OLD PRINT copies of the pp's in their archives----these are the ones they have donated and are linked at the "kdl" link. but even there, drf's and keenlands archives of forms don't have every regional edition of a days races, so you're likely to see dr fager in the form archive at kdl.xxxx, but not a horse who was running at waterford that same day----just the 4 or 5 tracks from the "main" edition of the form that day. i love the archives, but one thing you'll likely notice is how much "THE FORM" sucked in realtion to " THE MORNING TELEGRAPH" ....of which i have seen none archived..i have an extensive collection of forms and tele's, going back many years, so i have a pretty good understanding of the form. one additional note, the book "champions" from drf pres, has pp's for all divisional champs in it-----these pp's were RECONSTITUTED to modern standards by , i believe, paula welch, by compiling all the charts and formulating them to the current information and style.

illinoisbred · 07-05-2010, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamey1977

All They had was just class charts. What if we had Beyer Charts in 1950 and didn't tell anyone ? . We could have made a zillion dollars. The crowd was so stupid. They would have some blind favorite 7 to 5 and there were 14 to 1's. That if they had Beyers, would have been 3 to 1. And we got . 14 to 1 on them. Damn. How was handicapping even done in the dinosaur days?

I don't think they were too stupid; favorites were winning the same then (30%+) as they are now. Actually, a better feat then considering fields were generally larger in size then today. Also, there were some people back then crafting their own speed figures, or speed figure-like numbers,well before the name Beyer was ever heard.

Robert Goren · 07-05-2010, 09:45 AM

There were very few people doing daily variants until Beyers book came out. Even then the number of people doing it did not grow a lot. It is a lot of work if you do it by hand. There were some people such as Henry Kruk selling them for a few tracks. When simulcasting came in and with the advent of the PC, their use took off. When the DRF began publishing BSF, their usefulness declined.

Horseplayersbet.com · 07-05-2010, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinoisbred

I don't think they were too stupid; favorites were winning the same then (30%+) as they are now. Actually, a better feat then considering fields were generally larger in size then today. Also, there were some people back then crafting their own speed figures, or speed figure-like numbers,well before the name Beyer was ever heard.

There were way more overlays back then, and more overbet favorites.

Robert Goren · 07-05-2010, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com

There were way more overlays back then, and more overbet favorites.

I could be wrong, I do not remember more over bet favorites. A horse going off at less than even money was pretty rare back then. The takeout was a lot less and that helped immensely.

Horseplayersbet.com · 07-05-2010, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

I could be wrong, I do not remember more over bet favorites. A horse going off at less than even money was pretty rare back then. The takeout was a lot less and that helped immensely.

Program selections were overbet as a lot of players didn't use a form back then or any sort of past performances. Today's beyer horse rewarded those who did their own track variants a lot more.

illinoisbred · 07-05-2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

I could be wrong, I do not remember more over bet favorites. A horse going off at less than even money was pretty rare back then. The takeout was a lot less and that helped immensely.

I agree. Even into the 80's 2,3,4-5s were much more uncommon than you see today.

illinoisbred · 07-05-2010, 11:04 AM

Yesterday there were 4 horses at Arlington that went off at 4-5 or less. I'd venture to say even into the mid 80's only 1-Informed Decision would have been odds on.

Horseplayersbet.com · 07-05-2010, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinoisbred

I agree. Even into the 80's 2,3,4-5s were much more uncommon than you see today.

Field size has a lot to do with this.

Horseplayersbet.com · 07-05-2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinoisbred

Yesterday there were 4 horses at Arlington that went off at 4-5 or less. I'd venture to say even into the mid 80's only 1-Informed Decision would have been odds on.

I just looked at the historical charts for 1991 at Equibase for this weekend back then, and found 3 horses on the Sunday, and another on the Monday that were bet down below even money.

garyoz · 07-05-2010, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamey1977

All They had was just class charts. What if we had Beyer Charts in 1950 and didn't tell anyone ? . We could have made a zillion dollars. The crowd was so stupid. They would have some blind favorite 7 to 5 and there were 14 to 1's. That if they had Beyers, would have been 3 to 1. And we got . 14 to 1 on them. Damn. How was handicapping even done in the dinosaur days?

Len Ragozin and the clients for The Sheets dominated betting in NYRA races throughout the 70's and 80's and are still a key element today. Ragozin started developing his speed figures in the late 1950's. Professional grade numbers used by many trainers and agents.

Robert Goren · 07-05-2010, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com

I just looked at the historical charts for 1991 at Equibase for this weekend back then, and found 3 horses on the Sunday, and another on the Monday that were bet down below even money.

To me 1991 is start of the modern era of horse racing. Go back to 60s and early 70s and you find a completely different game. While DRF or MT was available, but tip sheets had a huge impact on wagering. I knew people who "handicapped" by the comments made after a horse's name on the Blue Sheet.

illinoisbred · 07-05-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

To me 1991 is start of the modern era of horse racing. Go back to 60s and early 70s and you find a completely different game. While DRF or MT was available, but tip sheets had a huge impact on wagering. I knew people who "handicapped" by the comments made after a horse's name on the Blue Sheet.

Again, I agree with you. The early 90's is about the time one began hearing people refer to betting trainers rather than horses.