Religion II

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

You forgot about the adulterous woman.

Where in the bible does Jesus exhibit your level of scorn and ridicule, when it comes to dealing with "sinners"? Is that what "tough love" means to you?

And you compare yourself and the rest of the skeptics in this thread to the "adulterous woman"? She had humility and the fear of God in her. You and others have neither!

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And you compare yourself and the rest of the skeptics in this thread to the "adulterous woman"? She had humility and the fear of God in her. You and others have neither!

Atheist’s have only 1 Commandment: Fear not the boogie man as he is not real.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

Atheist’s have only 1 Commandment: Fear not the boogie man as he is not real.

Kool! I don't believe in the boogie man either.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So save for the professional politicians and clerics, the rest of the world is good to good, heh?

Let me expand on my prior answer to you, Boxcar:

When we look into our own past...don't we see the same "sins" that we criticize the others for? How many times have we ourselves betrayed the trust that others have bestowed upon us? Does that mean that we consider OURSELVES to be "untrustworthy"?

No matter what unsavory qualities I see in a person, all I have to do is look into myself and my own actions...and, more often than not, I will see the same unsavory qualities within me. At one time or another in my life, I have been untrustworthy, dishonest, vain, petty...and a lot more. But these unsavory qualities fail to fully define me; they are just obstacles which I fight to overcome...as I try to improve my character as much as I can, day to day. And, if you ask me if I consider myself to be "trustworthy" right now...then I would answer you in the affirmative. Since I feel this way about me...shouldn't I extend the same courtesy to YOU? Why should I consider you "untrustworthy"...when I am willing to trust someone who is as faulty as I have been?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And you compare yourself and the rest of the skeptics in this thread to the "adulterous woman"? She had humility and the fear of God in her. You and others have neither!

You compared yourself to JESUS...and I can't even compare myself to the "adulterous woman"? With all the boasting that you've done here...now you presume to lecture us on "humility"?

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Really, so you're saying there's no such thing as objective truth?

Wrong. I'm saying that when one experiences God without Ego, that experience becomes polluted when shared with others who analyze, judge or dissect it.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Then your statements about "god consciousness" are meaningless and absurd since there is no way to objectively know what one's personal experience is...

Wrong. One's experience with God is nobody else's business.

Originally Posted by boxcar

So you admit that you're hypocrite? You admit that you should love Trump and his sins.

No. I made a distinction between his Ego and his soul.

Originally Posted by boxcar

But you say, you're not obligated? But isn't this the whole point to your god -- to love unconditionally just like he does?. I mean...why wouldn't you want to emulate the love of your god? Why wouldn't you want to be just like your god? Who or what loves better than your god?

Nobody is on the level of God. But I do not love Trump's ego as all ego is an illusion and anti God. I also do not take the bait of "Hate" of Trump as that is also Ego, illusion and anti God. This is the mistake of all anti Trump or anti anything. That is a trap which weakens the winds behind your sail.

Originally Posted by boxcar

So...now my $64. question to you is this: Do you think that your god loves you more than Donald Trump?

Silly question. Of course not. God does not love people according to their Ego's or status. Because Ego is illusion. God is not that dumb. And God has plenty of love for all.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Also, Jesus never told the Pharisees that they had to enter the kingdom. According to YOU, Jesus simply told them that the kingdom is within them. So if the kingdom within them was enough, then why wouldn't the kingdom that is in Trump be enough?

Finally, explain to us how a kingdom enters us but yet we must enter it.

We are born with the kingdom of God within us because we are children of God.

To know the kingdom of God is within you and to experience the kingdom of God within are two different dimensions. It is useless if someone tells you that there is Gold in a cave and you never go in it to get it. You're still broke.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Well, you should love Trump's "EGO" -- after all, your god does! According to you, there's not a thing or person in this universe that your god doesn't love. Are you superior to your god of love?

I already explained that Ego is an illusion and God knows this and God does not recognize Ego because it does not exist in the Divine, only in this world of illusion. Only what is in your heart does God see. What is in your heart is NOT ego. If what is in your heart is negative, God will give you chance after chance to change that because he loves you. It is the person with that closed heart who is responsible for changing it. In the afterlife their is no illusion (Ego) to cover up what is in the heart and the owner of that closed heart can see clearly the error of his or her ways.

Originally Posted by boxcar

But now you're telling me you don't love Trump's "EGO" even though it's his ego that will help him grow spiritually? You truly are conflicted, aren't you?

The only way Trump's ego will help him grow spiritually will be when his ego brings him to his knees and he sees the error of his ways. Otherwise Trump's ego is good for nothing.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

You compared yourself to JESUS...and I can't even compare myself to the "adulterous woman"? With all the boasting that you've done here...now you presume to lecture us on "humility"?

I compared myself to the "volatile" Jesus with his Father's enemies. But you unwittingly compared yourself to the "adulterous woman". That would be a riot, if it weren't so sad. Here's how it would gone if one of you skeptics had been this woman:

Light would have objected vehemently that she was not a sinner; for sin is only pain. She would have told Jesus to go and feel her pain, seek God-consciousness and take a hike.

Hcap would have also objected strongly, telling Jesus that sin is no big; for it's only "missing the mark". And that's not a big deal because everyone misses the mark.

If you had been the woman, you would have denied the existence of sin, and would have insisted that Jesus press charges against your accusers, sue them for slander and make you rich.

If it had been Actor,she would have wanted a sample of Jesus' blood for DNA testing, etc., etc.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I compared myself to the "volatile" Jesus with his Father's enemies. But you unwittingly compared yourself to the "adulterous woman". That would be a riot, if it weren't so sad. Here's how it would gone if one of you skeptics had been this woman:

Light would have objected vehemently that she was not a sinner; for sin is only pain. She would have told Jesus to go and feel her pain, seek God-consciousness and take a hike.

Hcap would have also objected strongly, telling Jesus that sin is no big; for it's only "missing the mark". And that's not a big deal because everyone misses the mark.

If you had been the woman, you would have denied the existence of sin, and would have insisted that Jesus press charges against your accusers, sue them for slander and make you rich.

If it had been Actor,she would have wanted a sample of Jesus' blood for DNA testing, etc., etc.

Oh...you only compared yourself to the "volatile" Jesus. Alright then...talk to us some more about "humility". You seem to be an expert in that.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

Wrong. I'm saying that when one experiences God without Ego, that experience becomes polluted when shared with others who analyze, judge or dissect it.

So, you agree there is objective truth? Can this truth be known?

Wrong. One's experience with God is nobody else's business.

Then everything you have posted about your personal feeling, experiences, etc. is meaningless. Your little universe will always be isolated from everyone else's little universe. No one can break through to yours, and you can't break into anyone else's.

No. I made a distinction between his Ego and his soul.

That's a false distinction because your god makes no such distinction. You should love Trump and his sins, including his ego because your god love loves everything in the universe. Again, how come you think you're better than your god?

Nobody is on the level of God. But I do not love Trump's ego as all ego is an illusion and anti God. I also do not take the bait of "Hate" of Trump as that is also Ego, illusion and anti God. This is the mistake of all anti Trump or anti anything. That is a trap which weakens the winds behind your sail.

But this begs the question! Why wouldn't you make your god love your role model for living?

Also, that is not for you to judge about Trump or anyone else. Your god makes no such judgments; for he/she/it, unconditionally loves everyone, regardless of any imperfections. It seems to me that you have established yourself as the greater god and relegated your god of love to the sidelines until it's convenient to use him/her/it as a talking point. You talk a great game about our god's unconditional love, but manifest none of it in your own life. What happened? Did the divine pipeline to you run dry? Or did the kingdom of your god get invaded by the world or something?

Silly question. Of course not. God does not love people according to their Ego's or status. Because Ego is illusion. God is not that dumb. And God has plenty of love for all.

Not a silly question. You look down your arrogant, condescending snout at Trump, as though you're so much superior. So, evidently, you're much dumber than your god. Your god doesn't judge anyone either, right? Then neither should you because, according to you justice and judgment and the like, are contrary to love. What earthly or heavenly good is your god if you don't want to follow and emulate him/her/it?

We are born with the kingdom of God within us because we are children of God.

Really? Who says we're children of God? You have any proof of this?

And this "kingdom of God within us" is the same kingdom Jesus said would be taken away from Israel and, therefore, from the Pharisees as well, right (Mat 21:43)? And it was taken away because Israel, as a whole, did not bear any fruit of the kingdom.

Can you tell us what fruit of the kingdom of your god have your produced? Most assuredly, you have borne only the bad fruit of being judgmental with respect to Trump. I guess you have so soon forgotten that sinning (including sins of the "ego", whatever they are) are as natural as breathing. Remember when you said, "He who has no sin, cast the first stone"?

To know the kingdom of God is within you and to experience the kingdom of God within are two different dimensions. It is useless if someone tells you that there is Gold in a cave and you never go in it to get it. You're still broke.

But again, Jesus left this little tidbit of their duty to "enter" out with the Pharisees. Jesus only told them only a half-truth? Or maybe the kingdom that must be entered is entirely external to us!? And you don't have the first inkling of what the kingdom is all about!

Matt 26:29
29 "But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom."
NASB

And this sounds like a pretty external kingdom:

Isa 65:17-25
17 "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;And the former things shall not be remembered or come to mind. 18 "But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;For behold, I create Jerusalem for rejoicing,And her people for gladness. 19 "I will also rejoice in Jerusalem, and be glad in My people;And there will no longer be heard in her The voice of weeping and the sound of crying. 20 "No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days,Or an old man who does not live out his days;For the youth will die at the age of one hundred And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred Shall be thought accursed. 21 "And they shall build houses and inhabit them;They shall also plant vineyards and eat their fruit. 22 "They shall not build, and another inhabit,They shall not plant, and another eat;For as the lifetime of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,And My chosen ones shall wear out the work of their hands. 23 "They shall not labor in vain,Or bear children for calamity;For they are the offspring of those blessed by the Lord,And their descendants with them. 24 "It will also come to pass that before they call, I will answer; and while they are still speaking, I will hear. 25 "The wolf and the lamb shall graze together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox; and dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall do no evil or harm in all My holy mountain," says the Lord.
NASB

And Jesus certainly had an external, visible kingdom in mind when he said:

Matt 8:10-12
10 Now when Jesus heard this, He marveled, and said to those who were following, "Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith with anyone in Israel. 11 "And I say to you, that many shall come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven; 12 but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. "
NASB

Wow! I guess there are "children of God" and then there are really children of God, since the "sons of the kingdom" will be locked out from that kingdom party!

Even the apostles were expecting the external kingdom right up to the minute Jesus left them to ascend to his Father:

Acts 1:6-8
6 And so when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?" 7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; 8 but you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth. "
NASB

It's very obvious from Jesus' answer that the time for kingdom restoration was in the future!

I already explained that Ego is an illusion and God knows this and God does not recognize Ego because it does not exist in the Divine, only in this world of illusion. Only what is in your heart does God see. What is in your heart is NOT ego. If what is in your heart is negative, God will give you chance after chance to change that because he loves you. It is the person with that closed heart who is responsible for changing it. In the afterlife their is no illusion (Ego) to cover up what is in the heart and the owner of that closed heart can see clearly the error of his or her ways.

So, since ego is not a real thing, what's the big deal!? If your god doesn't recognize or acknowledge the existence of ego, what in the world is there to worry about!? You keep crying "wolf" over this ego thingy, and yet you now tell us that God doesn't recognize it or even see it in us? But yet, we're supposed to jump through all kinds of hoops to kill what your god doesn't recognize, see or acknowledge? Really? We're supposed to chase after and kill phantoms?

The only way Trump's ego will help him grow spiritually will be when his ego brings him to his knees and he sees the error of his ways. Otherwise Trump's ego is good for nothing.[/

Oh...like you did, huh?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Oh...you only compared yourself to the "volatile" Jesus. Alright then...talk to us some more about "humility". You seem to be an expert in that.

I know what humility is...and it isn't in any of you skeptics on this thread.

The "adulterous woman" actually manifested humility with Jesus. Not a skeptic here would have responded to Jesus the way she did.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Non sequiturs. Stick to the topic. Quit deflecting. Prove that the universal principle of distrust is not universal.

What has this so-called "universal principle of distrust" have to do with religion? It's a secular concept like the "law of supply and demand" in economics. It in no way proves that any deity exists.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I know what humility is...and it isn't in any of you skeptics on this thread.

The "adulterous woman" actually manifested humility with Jesus. Not a skeptic here would have responded to Jesus the way she did.

D you consider skeptics more untrustworthy than biblical believers?

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by hcap

D you consider skeptics more untrustworthy than biblical believers?

Skeptics are great for keeping those who practice Apologetics sharp....Boxcar is a dull knife, it's his own fault not the skeptic's fault ever.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I know what humility is...and it isn't in any of you skeptics on this thread.

The "adulterous woman" actually manifested humility with Jesus. Not a skeptic here would have responded to Jesus the way she did.

If being a "believer" means becoming as humble as you...then I want no part of it.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

Skeptics are great for keeping those who practice Apologetics sharp....Boxcar is a dull knife, it's his own fault not the skeptic's fault ever.

Very true.

When debating religion...Boxcar brings a butter-knife to a sword fight.