The Last Dance - Page 2 - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

PressThePace · 05-16-2020, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryBoyle

These last 2 minutes from episode 7 were excellent. Hard not to admire MJ's focus on winning no matter what.

For context, they had showed a few clips of former teammates saying that MJ was pretty ruthless to play/practice with and that he wasn't a nice guy when it came to being on the team. Interviewer asked if that bothered him.

https://twitter.com/jimhamilton4/sta...62033155260425

The points he makes in this clip can't be overstated. Main takeaway for me: "Winning has a price. Leadership has a price". The mental strength needed for both is immense, and one of the reasons he is the GOAT, in my opinion.

thaskalos · 05-16-2020, 07:26 PM

What was Phil Jackson doing while MJ was beating up his teammates during practice?

Tom · 05-16-2020, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos

What was Phil Jackson doing while MJ was beating up his teammates during practice?

Getting Michael coffee and donuts.

PressThePace · 05-16-2020, 09:22 PM

It's amusing to me how people think Jordan was some kind of bully. Those guys were playing for the highest stakes imaginable in their profession. Emotion and passion can and do intertwine, especially when the efforts of some aren't perceived as acceptable by the alphas in the room. It's always been that way in sports.

I played in college and coach in HS now and I can say unequivocally that team members must be put in the most uncomfortable situations (sometimes by other players) in practice to perform at the highest levels when the bright lights shine. If it was easy, everybody would do it.

metro · 05-17-2020, 06:51 PM

Is what they've shown on TLD from Bulls practices supposed to be examples of MJ being hard on teammates? I got worse than that from my junior high PE coach.

PressThePace · 05-17-2020, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metro

Is what they've shown on TLD from Bulls practices supposed to be examples of MJ being hard on teammates? I got worse than that from my junior high PE coach.

Exactly!!

thaskalos · 05-17-2020, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PressThePace

It's amusing to me how people think Jordan was some kind of bully. Those guys were playing for the highest stakes imaginable in their profession. Emotion and passion can and do intertwine, especially when the efforts of some aren't perceived as acceptable by the alphas in the room. It's always been that way in sports.

I played in college and coach in HS now and I can say unequivocally that team members must be put in the most uncomfortable situations (sometimes by other players) in practice to perform at the highest levels when the bright lights shine. If it was easy, everybody would do it.

When you are coaching HS...do you permit the players to punch each other in the face? Jordan punching Will Perdue and Steve Kerr in the face during practice is considered to be "acceptable behavior"? If Jordan was allowed to do as he pleased...what was Phil Jackson needed for?

kingfin66 · 05-18-2020, 01:02 AM

Jordan said that Jackson threw him (Jordan) out of practice because of the incident with Kerr. He later called Kerr and apologized.

jay68802 · 05-18-2020, 02:31 AM

When we scrimaged in baseball, if a batter missed a bunt, or was not aggressive when needed, the next pitch was thrown at him. At football practice, I had a coach grab me by the facemask after a play, and told me I needed to be more aggressive. The next play I accidently ran into the coach at full speed. Nothing wrong with what MJ did as far as I am concerned.

thaskalos · 05-18-2020, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingfin66

Jordan said that Jackson threw him (Jordan) out of practice because of the incident with Kerr. He later called Kerr and apologized.

Kerr was the smallest guy on the team...did MJ face any consequences for lighting up Will Purdue? Or for endlessly tormenting all the bench players? I got a kick out of the Robert Parish incident...when Jordan got in Parish's face and cursed him out after Parish messed up during one of his first practices with the Bulls in 1996-97. Here's how Parish put it: "He got in my face and sassed me hard...and I told him 'I'm not as enamored with you as these other guys. I've got some rings too'. Then he told me that he would kick my ass...and I took a step closer to him and said 'No, you really aren't'. And he never did."

MJ was the best ever...but he was also a bully. If he wasn't...then he would try to "motivate" Parish too. But he knew better.

Secondbest · 05-18-2020, 08:09 AM

Just a great documentary. No matter what you think of Jordan bully no bully whatever, all this guy wanted was to win no matter what it took. He punched Kerr but in a the biggest spot he gave Kerr the ball.
The producers who filmed this should be proud.

ronsmac · 05-18-2020, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metro

Is what they've shown on TLD from Bulls practices supposed to be examples of MJ being hard on teammates? I got worse than that from my junior high PE coach.

My 6th grade football coach was terrifying and put us through drills that are banned in the Nfl. The Jordan stuff seemed minor.

cj · 05-18-2020, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Kerr was the smallest guy on the team...did MJ face any consequences for lighting up Will Purdue? Or for endlessly tormenting all the bench players? I got a kick out of the Robert Parish incident...when Jordan got in Parish's face and cursed him out after Parish messed up during one of his first practices with the Bulls in 1996-97. Here's how Parish put it: "He got in my face and sassed me hard...and I told him 'I'm not as enamored with you as these other guys. I've got some rings too'. Then he told me that he would kick my ass...and I took a step closer to him and said 'No, you really aren't'. And he never did."

MJ was the best ever...but he was also a bully. If he wasn't...then he would try to "motivate" Parish too. But he knew better.

Parish was a shell of his former self by his Bulls days. Why get beat up to motivate a guy that barely plays?

PressThePace · 05-18-2020, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Kerr was the smallest guy on the team...did MJ face any consequences for lighting up Will Purdue? Or for endlessly tormenting all the bench players? I got a kick out of the Robert Parish incident...when Jordan got in Parish's face and cursed him out after Parish messed up during one of his first practices with the Bulls in 1996-97. Here's how Parish put it: "He got in my face and sassed me hard...and I told him 'I'm not as enamored with you as these other guys. I've got some rings too'. Then he told me that he would kick my ass...and I took a step closer to him and said 'No, you really aren't'. And he never did."

MJ was the best ever...but he was also a bully. If he wasn't...then he would try to "motivate" Parish too. But he knew better.

Couldn't disagree more. I just listened to two of MJ's teammates say definitively that he was not a bully. A bully is someone who only tests the little guy. Jordan challenged everybody. Kerr went at Jordan first after a hard foul. That was noted by Kerr in the series.

PressThePace · 05-18-2020, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos

When you are coaching HS...do you permit the players to punch each other in the face? Jordan punching Will Perdue and Steve Kerr in the face during practice is considered to be "acceptable behavior"? If Jordan was allowed to do as he pleased...what was Phil Jackson needed for?

No, of course we discourage it because teenage kids aren't the best in the world about seeing the big-picture. You are comparing the interactions of adults with that of kids. These are grown men playing in a game that is really a business. That is very different from what I do. However, I've had kids that call others out for not going hard, which is perfectly acceptable to me provided the accuser isn't ever guilty of the same thing.