AP vs. Secretariat

[mlyles1]

http://deadspin.com/this-is-what-it-...ium=socialflow

[tucker6]

Love the very first comment. Sums up the entire link perfectly.

[RacingFan1992]

When I first saw the title, I thought "My God, let the fire storm begin"

[Augenj]

Very interesting to watch the poles flash by, first with Secretariat and then AP. I don't think Secretariat would have set those fast early fractions without Sham challenging him. In another year without Secretariat, Sham probably would have been a Triple Crown winner. All in all, I think Secretariat is incomparable. AP is "just" a great horse.

[Ocala Mike]

Please, please, please stop the insanity! Secretariat's Belmont stands alone for me as the single greatest sports event I ever personally witnessed, and I doubt that I'll live long enough to see another more charismatic horse or one that did more to put our sport in the national spotlight.

http://content.time.com/time/covers/...730611,00.html

[Augenj]

Originally Posted by Ocala Mike

Please, please, please stop the insanity! Secretariat's Belmont stands alone for me as the single greatest sports event I ever personally witnessed, and I doubt that I'll live long enough to see another more charismatic horse or one that did more to put our sport in the national spotlight.

http://content.time.com/time/covers/...730611,00.html

"All in all, I think Secretariat is incomparable."
Incomparable means nobody can compare with him just in case you missed my meaning.

[Stillriledup]

Secretariat is an untouchable which means people shouldnt be even THINKING of comparing him to others much less writing articles about it. You cant have it both ways, if secretariat stands alone in his own pantheon of greatness, we shouldnt even be putting him in the same breath as anyone. Why secretariat? Why not compare him to the last TC winner, why go "there"?

If John Wall scores 40 points in an nba game are we going to start seeing articles comparing him to michael jordan?

What are we doing here?

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Augenj

Very interesting to watch the poles flash by, first with Secretariat and then AP. I don't think Secretariat would have set those fast early fractions without Sham challenging him. In another year without Secretariat, Sham probably would have been a Triple Crown winner. All in all, I think Secretariat is incomparable. AP is "just" a great horse.

It's romantic to think that Secretariat "ruined" Sham in the Belmont, but Sham never ran again after the race, which suggests that Sham had an injury. So there's no reason to think that Sham wins a TC without Secretariat.

But Alydar, Arts and Letters, Majestic Prince, Sunday Silence, Smarty Jones, Easy Goer, Real Quiet, and Victory Gallop all win TC's but for one horse.

[letswastemoney]

I compared American Pharoah and Secretariat. https://www.ladyandthetrack.com/news...cretariat.html

I have no idea why it's taboo to compare them. We have no idea how American Pharoah would have handled faster fractions. Secretariat ran a faster final time because the initial fractions were fast, but no one can say American Pharoah would not have done the same.

And I don't even like American Pharoah as a fan.

[cj]

I think it is possible American Pharoah is as good as Secretariat. To this point, he has been at least close in my opinion.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by cj

I think it is possible American Pharoah is as good as Secretariat. To this point, he has been at least close in my opinion.

Do you suppose that American Pharoah could even SURPASS Secretariat, in the races to come?

[Kash$]

Originally Posted by cj

I think it is possible American Pharoah is as good as Secretariat. To this point, he has been at least close in my opinion.

Oh boy you opened a can..

[Augenj]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

It's romantic to think that Secretariat "ruined" Sham in the Belmont, but Sham never ran again after the race, which suggests that Sham had an injury. So there's no reason to think that Sham wins a TC without Secretariat.

But Alydar, Arts and Letters, Majestic Prince, Sunday Silence, Smarty Jones, Easy Goer, Real Quiet, and Victory Gallop all win TC's but for one horse.

Sham did have an injury, a hairline fracture, before he was to meet Secretariat at Saratoga. The difference between Sham and the others you mentioned is that they didn't finish 2nd to a legend or even raced against one. Sham's oversized heart at his autopsy indicates that 1 1/2 miles at Belmont would have been a cakewalk except he was run into the ground by Secretariat with those fractions and whose heart was even bigger than Sham's at his autopsy.

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by RacingFan1992

When I first saw the title, I thought "My God, let the fire storm begin"

To compare American Pharoah to Secretariat is an individual prerogative, but it is laughable and this is not a personal opinion, but an opinion based on historical facts.

I didn’t come to truly appreciate Secretariat achievements until he won the Belmont Stakes because I was a die-hard Dr. Fager fan (still is) and I bought into the prevalent rumor at the time “that he (Secretariat was just another Bold Ruler off-spring who couldn’t get the distance)”; and that rumor proved to be one of the most fallacious rumors ever circulated on the NYRA circuit during my tenure of attending races on the NYRA circuit.

Secretariat is beyond comparison in my lifetime and maybe Man O’ War or Phar Lap was better, but they ran before my time.

However the two horses during my lifetime that I would put in the company with Secretariat would be Dr. Fager and Seattle Slew, but not very close to him.

American Pharoah proved to me that at this stage of his career he is the best 3yo of his generation, but we shouldn’t forget Bayern's late achievements last year and the achievements of Shared Belief; they both showed signs of being “something very special” and today Bayern have gone backwards while Shared Belief is shelved with injury.

Furthermore, American Pharoah have yet to run on turf and against older horses as Secretariat did against the likes of Cougar II and his stable mate, Riva Ridge.

[cj]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Do you suppose that American Pharoah could even SURPASS Secretariat, in the races to come?

I don't know, because I didn't measure speed back then. I do know that tracks have changed enough that I don't think comparing raw times means much. I don't compare raw times from Friday to Saturday, why would I compare times from 1973 to 2015?

Secretariat lost a few times, though he also tackled older horses and also turf twice. Would going undefeated while dominating the Haskell, Travers, Jockey Club Gold Cup and BC Classic surpass him? In my mind, probably. But I would never say one was undeniably better than the other if that happened.

I think a lot of people get overly nostalgic when these discussions come up from time to time. I do it myself sometimes, but I try not to do so. All of Secratariat's losses get excuses now. American Pharoah's races are being taken apart with a fine tooth comb.