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07-11-2018, 10:09 AM
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onefast99
Anyone should be able to bet unless you are an employee of that track the horse is racing at. jocks and trainers and agents are not employees of tracks. A steward has the ability to change the outcome of a race, they must be barred from wagering at the track they are employed at.
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Fast, c'mon....tell me this doesn't include the NYRA gate crew. I love those guys! I've watched them going over the pocket racing program between races so many times. ... I don't care if they bet. ... Seriously. 
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07-11-2018, 10:41 AM
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#32
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dGnr8
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Posts: 3,023
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I have mixed feelings about the change.
I don't feel too bad about winners at SAR getting 5% less of an even larger purse. One win at SAR may not pay the training bill for a year but it sure takes the pressure off.
3rd, 4th and 5th get a better deal now, maybe enough to try harder.
Also now, a 6th place horse in a 6 horse field gets paid the same as the 5th place horse. I'm not sure that's right.
And I'm not sure how this makes for larger fields, since the more horses you have after 6 the less each one gets. In a larger field it's likely less than $200 each over last year. Does that tip the decision to keep a new horse on the grounds or to ship it in?
Horses at SAR were already getting paid more than anywhere else in the country and they still are after this change.
__________________
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The great menace to progress is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge - Daniel J. Boorstin
The takers get the honey, the givers sing the blues - Robin Trower, Too Rolling Stoned - 1974
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07-11-2018, 02:27 PM
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#33
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onefast99
Anyone should be able to bet unless you are an employee of that track the horse is racing at. jocks and trainers and agents are not employees of tracks. A steward has the ability to change the outcome of a race, they must be barred from wagering at the track they are employed at.
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So you are OK with Irad betting a grand on Jose in a race they are riding in together?
Is Pete Rose riding these days?
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07-11-2018, 02:45 PM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,956
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07-11-2018, 05:08 PM
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grits
Fast, c'mon....tell me this doesn't include the NYRA gate crew. I love those guys! I've watched them going over the pocket racing program between races so many times. ... I don't care if they bet. ... Seriously. |
I always wondered about those guys I did see a race a few years back where the gate crew ran over to a horse that was acting up in the gate and left the 8:5 favorite with nobody near him the gate opened the 8:5favorite went to his knees and never came in the money but now you have me thinking again!
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Remember the NJ horseman got you here now do the right thing with the purses!
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07-11-2018, 05:14 PM
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
So you are OK with Irad betting a grand on Jose in a race they are riding in together?
Is Pete Rose riding these days?
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So what makes you think that Irad or his brother aren’t trying to win the race you are not a jockey and neither am I and they are not riding in cars out there with brakes steering wheels or gas pedals there are a lot more things that could change the outcome of a race other than a jockeys bad ride. I know owners that play $50-$1000 or more to win on a horse and hand the ticket to the jockey in the winners circle. It happens more often than you think!
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Remember the NJ horseman got you here now do the right thing with the purses!
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07-11-2018, 05:41 PM
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#37
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onefast99
So what makes you think that Irad or his brother aren’t trying to win the race you are not a jockey and neither am I and they are not riding in cars out there with brakes steering wheels or gas pedals there are a lot more things that could change the outcome of a race other than a jockeys bad ride. I know owners that play $50-$1000 or more to win on a horse and hand the ticket to the jockey in the winners circle. It happens more often than you think!
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Come on, you can't have jockeys betting on other horses in the race.
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07-11-2018, 08:32 PM
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#38
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,744
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Only fool ever assumes honesty.
You CANNOT allow the people who participate in the sporting event to bet on it's outcome. ANY sporting event, Anyone. Anytime.
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07-12-2018, 08:51 AM
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#39
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Only fool ever assumes honesty.
You CANNOT allow the people who participate in the sporting event to bet on it's outcome. ANY sporting event, Anyone. Anytime.
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I see no problem with a participant betting on themselves to win.
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07-12-2018, 09:23 AM
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#40
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
I see no problem with a participant betting on themselves to win.
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Pete Rose agrees with you. I don't think it is a big problem, but it does bring into question the times riders don't bet on themselves. Obviously it wouldn't be wise to bet on yourself every race, but it still isn't a good optic.
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07-12-2018, 09:53 AM
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Come on, you can't have jockeys betting on other horses in the race.
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ban jockeys from betting on races they are involved in and their friends or family can still bet for them. Employees of the track should be banned from betting from the gate crew to the horse identifier to the chief of scales to the racing secretary and stewards that should be set in stone.
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Remember the NJ horseman got you here now do the right thing with the purses!
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07-12-2018, 09:58 AM
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#42
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,447
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You can't stop jockeys or trainers or anyone from betting on horses...all they need is a friend to do it for them if they don't want to risk doing it themselves.
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07-12-2018, 09:58 AM
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Only fool ever assumes honesty.
You CANNOT allow the people who participate in the sporting event to bet on it's outcome. ANY sporting event, Anyone. Anytime.
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honesty? We can’t even agree on a drug policy that covers every track let alone worry about a jockey betting his hard earned money on the outcome of a race he is involved in.
__________________
Remember the NJ horseman got you here now do the right thing with the purses!
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07-12-2018, 10:00 AM
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 660
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You don't want jockeys betting even on themselves to win
The problem is a group of jockeys could reach an understanding that they will help each other's bet win. So 4 jockeys might agree to help each of them cash a winning bet by not trying when one of them has a bet running. So in R1 Jockey A backs themself to win while Jockeys B, C and D don't try or even engage in tactics to help A win. Then in R2 Jockey B bets so A, C and D try to help B get home etc etc. After 4 races each of them cashes a big bet on their own mount
So the rule has to be that jockeys cannot bet
However back in the real world it is very hard to stop jockeys betting and rumours always abound about some jockeys being big bettors
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07-12-2018, 10:21 AM
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#45
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,744
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Well, there you go.
Why bother if it is hard to do.
No one can stop a cook from pissing in the mashed potatoes if they have a mind to do so.
So why make it illegal? 
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