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Old 06-28-2018, 03:28 PM   #106
thaskalos
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Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire View Post
I believe you found serious fault, in your mind, with everything you read. I am asking you if you want me to believe there is no other person who thinks like you about social policies, spiritual concepts, or on any human endeavor. Because that is what you are telling us. You are stating you have not been influenced by the teachings and examples of other people, and thus no one can hold the same values as you, i.e. travelling a solitary path.
Let me put it this way:

The more I associate with people, on the street and online...the more I start thinking that I might be an alien from another planet...who cannot take ANYTHING seriously, regardless of how "serious" other people take living to be. I honestly feel like an actor on a stage...who has forgotten who he was before the director yelled..."ACTION!"
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Old 06-28-2018, 03:38 PM   #107
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Let me put it this way:

The more I associate with people, on the street and online...the more I start thinking that I might be an alien from another planet...who cannot take ANYTHING seriously, regardless of how "serious" other people take living to be. I honestly feel like an actor on a stage...who has forgotten who he was before the director yelled..."ACTION!"
All the world's a stage. Shakespeare.

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Old 06-28-2018, 03:40 PM   #108
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All the world's is a stage. Shakespeare.
Yes...I read that many years ago...but it took me a long time to actually LIVE it.
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Old 06-28-2018, 03:46 PM   #109
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A nation can have a strong leader and not be fascist.

A nation can have a "national rebirth" ("Make America Great Again) without being fascist.

And I don't know what you mean by " cult of leadership". This is a vague, broad term that can at any given time apply to the Right or to the Left -- to Republicans or Democrats -- depending which party is in power. So...this catch-all phrase is rather meaningless in our political system.
Okay... before you, PA, or any of the others on here jump me just read below as I try and unpack this in a way not consistent with my biggest dick on here title...

First of all... yes a nation can have any one of those things without being fascist. Its the congruence of all of those things that swings the pendulum that way. We are talking about pendulums here and swings in politics. Right now we have knee-jerked so hard right we are on the fascist end of the spectrum. Doesn't mean we haven't been there before, we have. Doesn't mean that the preceding administration isn't partly responsible for that reaction. Doesn't mean we are stuck here forever... its just where we are right now.

If the rhetoric was leveling the playing field on a class basis we would be calling it socialist. The rhetoric right now is "Make America Great Again" "us vs. the world" "the evil globalists" etc. etc.

That's fascist, or at least flirting with it... different side... essentially the same coin.

Okay... the bigger stuff.

For the past 150 years or so liberal democracy has reigned supreme atop the global power structure but its faced lots of challenges. Its important to note when I use the word liberal here I don't mean it on a left/right spectrum. We are the most enduring bastion of liberal democracy on the planet and also the most powerful... despite many challenges.

The Great War was the first major challenge as liberal democracies waged war against the traditional monarchy. LD in Europe survived... barely and the traditional monarchy was tossed on the scrap heap of history.

During this period other factors came into play as the industrial revolution took root and new structures arose to challenge it. Communists saw LD as a means of keeping the ruling elite in power at the expense of the working class while Fascism embraced state or racial unity in a global struggle for supremacy. Another fight broke out and the Communists and LD's combined to defeat the Fascists.

Throughout the post-industrial era America, the strongest LD, took on Communism and shaped the world power structure in a way that would be of benefit to itself. For several reasons but most notably Marx's flawed view of Human Nature and the Economic Freedom of a LD the United States emerged victorious from that.

During all of this the United States has been able to climb and maintain itself a top that mountain for a few simple reasons. Simple geography has played a large part and the fact that our government is terribly slow to change. Its usually able to weather periods of fascism (1920's) and communist/socialist (1960's) due to this.

Now with the information age/revolution a new competitor is arriving on the scene and that is the technocracy that we are seeing in China. Domestically the information age has also mobilized previously defeated factions like communists and fascists. Information disseminates quickly and extremists always yell the loudest. This is being reflected in our politics on a daily basis...

Don't believe me? Look at the real challengers in the last election cycle... Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders.

As extremism has grown and America's LD looks for its path forward these things are going to happen. Right now the swing towards fascism is logical following the last group in power and to the objective viewer its fairly obvious...

Doesn't mean its the right now. America isn't getting "screwed" right now by anybody. Our supremacy is on a level never scene before in human history... that's a point blank fact. America already is great... we don't need to swing to these extremes...



So now slam away if you'd like but I did put considerable thought into this.... I tried to not drill down to specifics but I can if I need to.
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Old 06-28-2018, 03:47 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by MargieRose View Post
So, is Trump leaning toward being a 'dictator' who has plans of remaining in control of the U.S.A for life? Isn't that what dictators usually strive for? Is that even possible in this country?
Its very hard here as our system of government is pretty ineffective at bringing about change....

I touched on it above.
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Old 06-28-2018, 04:17 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by elysiantraveller View Post
..........

The Great War was the first major challenge as liberal democracies waged war against the traditional monarchy. LD in Europe survived... barely and the traditional monarchy was tossed on the scrap heap of history.

During this period other factors came into play as the industrial revolution took root and new structures arose to challenge it. Communists saw LD as a means of keeping the ruling elite in power at the expense of the working class while Fascism embraced state or racial unity in a global struggle for supremacy. Another fight broke out and the Communists and LD's combined to defeat the Fascists.
What LD's? I assume you are referring to liberal democracies by the term LD's. The initial participants were all monarchies, there were no liberal democracies. One of the major factors of WWI is imperialism, the actual lynch pin. WWI had nothing to do with LD's fighting traditional monarchies. The fall of traditional monarchies was an unintentional consequence of the war.

You need to stop reading revisionist history books.

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Old 06-28-2018, 04:23 PM   #112
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Old 06-28-2018, 04:29 PM   #113
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Who among us is the "Marshall Bennett" of the liberals? Can you point him out to me please?
There aren't any Thask. He just don't (he do not)like me.
Its alright for pace to trash the left...not so much for others. Depends on if he likes you, not what you post.
I think my post was spot-on and bet millions would agree, but not Mike. After all it was written by Marshall. We've been down this road before him and I.
Nothing will ever change. He's about as impartial with his members as a mother hen. Has nothing to do with the forum or its contents. Its the people he's labeled personally. Its the first thing he sees and uses to judge what people say here..
Think about it, I've been here 11 years and he's never agreed with me on anything. Not even once.
And as for you Mr. Fantastic Dan...there's nothing sick about it. They were my words and they make perfect sense...to some. Not you of course, you're the shit I was posting about.
So, now you can go over and sit with Mike and cry over what a horrible person I am.
Frankly...I don't give a fck
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Old 06-28-2018, 04:37 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by elysiantraveller View Post
Okay... before you, PA, or any of the others on here jump me just read below as I try and unpack this in a way not consistent with my biggest dick on here title...

First of all... yes a nation can have any one of those things without being fascist. Its the congruence of all of those things that swings the pendulum that way. We are talking about pendulums here and swings in politics. Right now we have knee-jerked so hard right we are on the fascist end of the spectrum. Doesn't mean we haven't been there before, we have. Doesn't mean that the preceding administration isn't partly responsible for that reaction. Doesn't mean we are stuck here forever... its just where we are right now.

If the rhetoric was leveling the playing field on a class basis we would be calling it socialist. The rhetoric right now is "Make America Great Again" "us vs. the world" "the evil globalists" etc. etc.

That's fascist, or at least flirting with it... different side... essentially the same coin.

Okay... the bigger stuff.

For the past 150 years or so liberal democracy has reigned supreme atop the global power structure but its faced lots of challenges. Its important to note when I use the word liberal here I don't mean it on a left/right spectrum. We are the most enduring bastion of liberal democracy on the planet and also the most powerful... despite many challenges.

The Great War was the first major challenge as liberal democracies waged war against the traditional monarchy. LD in Europe survived... barely and the traditional monarchy was tossed on the scrap heap of history.

During this period other factors came into play as the industrial revolution took root and new structures arose to challenge it. Communists saw LD as a means of keeping the ruling elite in power at the expense of the working class while Fascism embraced state or racial unity in a global struggle for supremacy. Another fight broke out and the Communists and LD's combined to defeat the Fascists.

Throughout the post-industrial era America, the strongest LD, took on Communism and shaped the world power structure in a way that would be of benefit to itself. For several reasons but most notably Marx's flawed view of Human Nature and the Economic Freedom of a LD the United States emerged victorious from that.

During all of this the United States has been able to climb and maintain itself a top that mountain for a few simple reasons. Simple geography has played a large part and the fact that our government is terribly slow to change. Its usually able to weather periods of fascism (1920's) and communist/socialist (1960's) due to this.

Now with the information age/revolution a new competitor is arriving on the scene and that is the technocracy that we are seeing in China. Domestically the information age has also mobilized previously defeated factions like communists and fascists. Information disseminates quickly and extremists always yell the loudest. This is being reflected in our politics on a daily basis...

Don't believe me? Look at the real challengers in the last election cycle... Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders.

As extremism has grown and America's LD looks for its path forward these things are going to happen. Right now the swing towards fascism is logical following the last group in power and to the objective viewer its fairly obvious...

Doesn't mean its the right now. America isn't getting "screwed" right now by anybody. Our supremacy is on a level never scene before in human history... that's a point blank fact. America already is great... we don't need to swing to these extremes...



So now slam away if you'd like but I did put considerable thought into this.... I tried to not drill down to specifics but I can if I need to.
Thanks for the history lesson, but I'm not interested. I'm interested in only recent events.

None of the points I raised are mutually exclusive, nor do they logically have to be and in fact...they're actually consistent with each other because they complement each other. One can have great love for and pride in and loyalty to his nation -- all at once and simultaneously -- and not be fascist. I can want what is best for my country without be a fascist.

I can want and expect the government to properly and thoroughly vet immigrants so that all the rest of us can have good neighbors.

I can want and expect the government to formulate policy that will help me grow financially because as I grow, I was "pay if forward" ( in a manner of speaking) by putting at least part of my expendable income back into the private sector.

I can want and expect the government to also formulate good trade policies and corporate policies to help keep businesses here because the more businesses that remain here, the more Americans ("my extended family") will benefit through employment, etc., etc. And I love my "family" -- it's so much easier and logical and rationale to love those who are near than the strangers on far away lands and shores. The First Law of Love: Love Your Own First! (And the operative word here is "first"). And "first" doesn't mean only.

Finally, there is no swing to fascism with Trump. In fact, Trump is trying to drain the swamp of all the commie-loving Obama types, the intolerant globalists, the intolerant environmentalists, the intolerant leftists who hate the Constitution, the intolerant "champions" of Free Speech, etc., etc. It appears you missed all the trash that was taken out at the last election. And there is still a lot more.

But meanwhile...since you think America is embracing evil fascism, I would strongly encourage to you to get that memo out to all the foreign invaders at the southern border. It's the only compassionate, loving thing you could do for them -- prevent them from leaping out of a hot pot into a hotter fry pan.
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Old 06-28-2018, 04:46 PM   #115
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There aren't any Thask. He just don't (he do not)like me.
Its alright for pace to trash the left...not so much for others. Depends on if he likes you, not what you post.
I think my post was spot-on and bet millions would agree, but not Mike. After all it was written by Marshall. We've been down this road before him and I.
Nothing will ever change. He's about as impartial with his members as a mother hen. Has nothing to do with the forum or its contents. Its the people he's labeled personally. Its the first thing he sees and uses to judge what people say here..
Think about it, I've been here 11 years and he's never agreed with me on anything. Not even once.
And as for you Mr. Fantastic Dan...there's nothing sick about it. They were my words and they make perfect sense...to some. Not you of course, you're the shit I was posting about.
So, now you can go over and sit with Mike and cry over what a horrible person I am.
Frankly...I don't give a fck
but wait a minute...you're just the type of person a whole bunch of people on the left here would THINK I would love...

Now just how can this be?
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Old 06-28-2018, 04:51 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire View Post
What LD's? I assume you are referring to liberal democracies by the term LD's. The initial participants were all monarchies, there were no liberal democracies. One of the major factors of WWI is imperialism, the actual lynch pin. WWI had nothing to do with LD's fighting traditional monarchies. The fall of traditional monarchies was an unintentional consequence of the war.

You need to stop reading revisionist history books.
WWI was fought between liberal democracies and monarchies.

The monarchies lost or failed. The Ottomans, Germans, and Austrians to military defeat. The Russians collapsed in on themselves.

Command economy authoritarianism was defeated by liberal democracy as well without shots fired.

You are trying to paint a "vs." theme. I'm not. I'm stating in broad terms what's happened just like what's happening now.
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Old 06-28-2018, 04:58 PM   #117
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WWI was fought between liberal democracies and monarchies.

The monarchies lost or failed. The Ottomans, Germans, and Austrians to military defeat. The Russians collapsed in on themselves.

Command economy authoritarianism was defeated by liberal democracy as well without shots fired.

You are trying to paint a "vs." theme. I'm not. I'm stating in broad terms what's happened just like what's happening now.
What liberal democracies are you referring to? I am not painting anything. The fall of monarchies was an unintended consequence of the war, a war due to imperialism. England was and is a monarchy which practices imperialism, France practiced imperialism, the reason for U.S. involvement in Vietnam. The war was about power over territories outside the participants boundaries.

No country's war goal had been to end monarchies. The goal had been to protect outside territories and expand them, period.

You need to stop reading revisionist history books.

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Old 06-28-2018, 05:06 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Marshall Bennett View Post
There aren't any Thask. He just don't (he do not)like me.
Its alright for pace to trash the left...not so much for others. Depends on if he likes you, not what you post.
I think my post was spot-on and bet millions would agree, but not Mike. After all it was written by Marshall. We've been down this road before him and I.
Nothing will ever change. He's about as impartial with his members as a mother hen. Has nothing to do with the forum or its contents. Its the people he's labeled personally. Its the first thing he sees and uses to judge what people say here..
Think about it, I've been here 11 years and he's never agreed with me on anything. Not even once.
And as for you Mr. Fantastic Dan...there's nothing sick about it. They were my words and they make perfect sense...to some. Not you of course, you're the shit I was posting about.
So, now you can go over and sit with Mike and cry over what a horrible person I am.
Frankly...I don't give a fck
Yeah...I've seen this side of him once or twice myself. I doubt that he really means it though...because his outbursts don't seem to last very long.
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Old 06-28-2018, 06:18 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire View Post
What liberal democracies are you referring to? I am not painting anything. The fall of monarchies was an unintended consequence of the war, a war due to imperialism. England was and is a monarchy which practices imperialism, France practiced imperialism, the reason for U.S. involvement in Vietnam. The war was about power over territories outside the participants boundaries.

No country's war goal had been to end monarchies. The goal had been to protect outside territories and expand them, period.

You need to stop reading revisionist history books.
Practicing imperialism is irrelevant to the states that waged the war. France and Britain at the time were ruled by parliamentary governments. British had parliament and France the third republic.

Just because you practice imperialism has zero hearing on the type of government you operate. The United States practiced imperialism from the time of McKinley through to the 20s and at the time was the most successful of the imperialists.

One does not disqualify the other.

Its competing systems of government nothing more nothing less. Monarchies were defeated by Liberal Democracies... barely but they did.

Last edited by elysiantraveller; 06-28-2018 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 06-28-2018, 06:28 PM   #120
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Practicing imperialism is irrelevant to the states that waged the war. France and Britain at the time were ruled by parliamentary governments. British had parliament and France the third republic.

Just because you practice imperialism has zero hearing on the type of government you operate. The United States practiced imperialism from the time of McKinley through to the 20s and at the time was the most successful of the imperialists.

One does not disqualify the other.

Its competing systems of government nothing more nothing less. Monarchies were defeated by Liberal Democracies... barely but they did.
Not even close to a relevant response. The issue of the type of government in relation to practicing imperialism is irrelevant. No country had as its objective during the war or before the war to fight or defeat monarchies, especially England, as a form of government. The cause of the war had been imperialism and the goal of all the countries had been to protect and/or expand their existing territorial holdings. The fall of monarchies was an unintended consequence of the war, not a goal as you stated.

Keep on throwing that brown substance at the wall.

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