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Old 05-03-2008, 02:54 PM   #16
CryingForTheHorses
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Originally Posted by Tom
That sucs, Karl - the NEW racing tradition - screw everyone.
Agree Ken - horsemen suck more than any party in this.
I think you are all being unfair to the horsemen,Granted you guys do the betting BUT we put on the show!!!! for you guys to bet..I see people bitching about what the track keeps in takeouts but no body seems to care if the horseman make a living..Calders purses are bad and the horseman needed to make a stand...
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:06 PM   #17
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Never forget, Tom, there are other shows.
Ones that don't insult the patrons.
Racing is just one option out there........

I can can change games overnight...can you?
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:16 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing
I think you are all being unfair to the horsemen,Granted you guys do the betting BUT we put on the show!!!! for you guys to bet..I see people bitching about what the track keeps in takeouts but no body seems to care if the horseman make a living..Calders purses are bad and the horseman needed to make a stand...
Tom,

How about rather than screwing around with bettors, you withhold horses from the tracks (remember it's between you and them, it's not our fault)
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:19 PM   #19
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The squabbling parties in the ADW/horsemen mess couldn't even settle their selfish disputes in time to take advantage of what is by far the most profitable day of the year.
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:20 PM   #20
shanta
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Originally Posted by BillW
Tom,

How about rather than screwing around with bettors, you withhold horses from the tracks (remember it's between you and them, it's not our fault)
Bang! We have a winner
Mr.Schell you and the rest might want to pay close attention to Bill's post.
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:28 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing
I think you are all being unfair to the horsemen,Granted you guys do the betting BUT we put on the show!!!! for you guys to bet..I see people bitching about what the track keeps in takeouts but no body seems to care if the horseman make a living..Calders purses are bad and the horseman needed to make a stand...
Without us McSchell, there is no show! The longer this dispute goes on, the more this will prove out. They run 9 races a day during our county fair with no wagering, and they might have 50 people in the stands. The one year they had parimutal wagering, they had over a 1000 a day. You still think horseman run the show?
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:31 PM   #22
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Bang! We have a winner
Mr.Schell you and the rest might want to pay close attention to Bill's post.
Btw for the first time in 20 years NO money of mine went into the pools today in protest. Went to Frankie and Angelo's this morning and bet the "old fashioned" way. Al Capone style. Food was great (free). Racing Forms everywhere (free). Rebates on winning Derby win tickets.

How much of that is gonna be spilt between the horsemen and whomever??

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Old 05-03-2008, 11:33 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing
I see people bitching about what the track keeps in takeouts but no body seems to care if the horseman make a living.
Why in hell should we? The owners clearly don't give two damns about the players. They're fighting hoof and tail against leaving enough chips on the table to reduce takeout or fund rebates for the players. The greedy bastards wan ALL the chips.

The horsemen are just as happy screwing the players as are the tracks. Let 'em eat oats!

Last edited by Kelso; 05-03-2008 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 05-04-2008, 12:11 AM   #24
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I'll make the argument that the ONE thing horsemen, tracks, and players should be trying to do is figure out how to GROW HANDLE. When handle grows so does purse money.... which means more money for the horsemen. When handle grows so do profits... which means more money for track execs. When handle grows so do betting opportunities... which means more money for the savvy player.

Handle growth as the industry's primary goal seems like a no brainer to me. Please, TELL ME WHAT I AM MISSING here.

I'm convinced one of the primary reasons the game hasn't undergone handle growth on the same scale as casino gambling and poker has everything to do with parimutuel takeout (especially on exotics) being ridiculously high compared to other gambling games. I'm also convinced that reduced takeout and/or widespread rebates (same thing IMHO) CAN be made to drive explosive handle growth if done in the right way.

Not only have track execs dropped the ball on growing handle - but they seem to be doing everything within their power to prevent it - fighting it tooth and nail at times (almost knowingly IMHO) hell bent on running their own industry into the ground.

Now the horsemen want a bigger pct piece of the pie. Thing is, if they get what they are after, reduced takeout and/or widespread rebates - and handle growth that comes as a result of that - becomes that much more difficult to achieve.

This whole infighting thing is a no win situation for all concerned. Doesn't anyone in this industry have one smidgeon of common sense?


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Old 05-04-2008, 12:18 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Jeff P
I'll make the argument that the ONE thing horsemen, tracks, and players should be trying to do is figure out how to GROW HANDLE. When handle grows so does purse money....


-jp

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Speaking as a player, we are not the ones restriciting existing handle. It is the greedy insider SOBs. We know how to do it - just let us bet. Racing has no one to blame but themselves for ALL thier problems.
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