Religion III

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Adam is barely reaching. Looks like God is doing all the work.
However, IMO that last step is up to man, assuming he is even looking.

Michelangelo was a genius.

God is infinitely more a "genius" since he found the way at the Cross of Christ to express his love to his elect, while simultaneously not compromising on his righteousness since that Cross also demonstrates God's unyielding justice toward unrepenatant sinners. The Cross of Christ at once proves that love and justice are not mutually exclusive attributes.

The bible doesn't give a date for creation. The best we can do is to follow the geneaologies, as Bishop Usher (and others scholars have) to arrive at an approximate date.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Salvation is entirely the work of God! Since Adam was already dead spiritually, how could he reach God?

And you know this how? You are full of scripture sh*t.

Always was and always will be.
Think for yourself for a change.

Youy still haver not answered how come your ugly, despicable Yahweh tortures children by planting worms in their eye. How come?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

And you know this how? You are full of scripture sh*t.

Always was and always will be.
Think for yourself for a change.

Youy still haver not answered how come your ugly, despicable Yahweh tortures children by planting worms in their eye. How come?

I have answered it. I asked you yesterday about what part(s) of the biblical scenarios A and B didn't you get. I'm still awaiting your answer.

If I thought for myself, I would be thinking like you and the rest of the world! (God forbid I should ever go back to such profane, illogical, torturous thoughts!).

Salvation is entirely of God; for it is only He who can raise the dead from their [spiritual] tombs!

Eph 2:7-10
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
NIV

And,

Rom 9:14-16
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
NIV

And,

John 1:11-13
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
NASB

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I have answered it. I asked you yesterday about what part(s) of the biblical scenarios A and B didn't you get. I'm still awaiting your answer.

You have said diddly squat. Without any previous nonsense. No "scenarios", rabbit holes or diversions. Answer this. One or two paragraphs.

IF YOU CAN

How come your ugly, despicable Yahweh tortures children by planting worms in their eye. How come?


Looks like you can't

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You have said diddly squat. Without any previous nonsense. No "scenarios", rabbit holes or diversions. Answer this. One or two paragraphs.

IF YOU CAN

How come your ugly, despicable Yahweh tortures children by planting worms in their eye. How come?


Looks like you can't

Answer this first: How come you're denser than a sack full of rocks!? How come you didn't understand the question I put to yesterday about God manifesting to mankind his kindness and severity? I asked you this question to which I never received a reply: Who would come to their senses and repent of their sins if God never manifested his severity to anyone? How would anyone know this world is badly broken if God never gave it a taste of hell!? And to help you to answer that I even pointed you the Parable of the Prodigal Son.

So...here's my suggestion for you: Stuff your self-imposed ignorance in some orifice that never sees the light of day, and quit boring me to death with your insufferably boring, repetitious posts.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Answer this first: How come you're denser than a sack full of rocks!? How come you didn't understand the question I put to yesterday about God manifesting to mankind his kindness and severity? I asked you this question to which I never received a reply: Who would come to their senses and repent of their sins if God never manifested his severity to anyone? How would anyone know this world is badly broken if God never gave it a taste of hell!? And to help you to answer that I even pointed you the Parable of the Prodigal Son.

So...here's my suggestion for you: Stuff your self-imposed ignorance in some orifice that never sees the light of day, and quit boring me to death with your insufferably boring, repetitious posts.

This only works if the sinner receives his "punishment" in the proper manner. If I rob and rape people, but God shows his "severity" by putting a flesh-eating worm in a little African girl's eye...God's message get's a bit obscured...and I might miss the intended lesson. Take that troublesome case where the Catholic priests were raping the little boys. Who received the brunt of God's "severity"...the criminal priests...or the little boys?

Your God is far from mistake-proof, Boxcar.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

This only works if the sinner receives his "punishment" in the proper manner. If I rob and rape people, but God shows his "severity" by putting a flesh-eating worm in a little African girl's eye...God's message get's a bit obscured...and I might miss the intended lesson. Take that troublesome case where the Catholic priests were raping the little boys. Who received the brunt of God's "severity"...the criminal priests...or the little boys?

Your God is far from mistake-proof, Boxcar.

Actually, my God is mistake-proof, since ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. So, when God allows misery, suffering, pain and sorrow in this world, he is just in doing so because all that is unleashed upon sinners.

Also, your premise misses the mark in another way: PHAROAH! God punished the king repeatedly for his stubborn refusal to let God's "firstborn" (Hebrews) go. I also quoted two passages in Revelation about others refusing to repent in spite of what they suffered!

Therefore...THEREFORE, at the end of the day, the salvation of any soul depends entirely upon God's sovereign grace, and I supported this truth with several scriptures earlier today. Some will come to repentance, others will not, no matter what. The sole difference between these two groups does not lie in them; for they are both made of the same clay and come from the same lump (Rom 9:21). The difference then is God and his sovereign will. He determines who will be a vessel of honor and who will be destined for ignoble use (such as Pharaoh).

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Actually, my God is mistake-proof, since ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. So, when God allows misery, suffering, pain and sorrow in this world, he is just in doing so because all that is unleashed upon sinners.

Also, your premise misses the mark in another way: PHAROAH! God punished the king repeatedly for his stubborn refusal to let God's "firstborn" (Hebrews) go. I also quoted two passages in Revelation about others refusing to repent in spite of what they suffered!

Therefore...THEREFORE, at the end of the day, the salvation of any soul depends entirely upon God's sovereign grace, and I supported this truth with several scriptures earlier today. Some will come to repentance, others will not, no matter what. The sole difference between these two groups does not lie in them; for they are both made of the same clay and come from the same lump (Rom 9:21). The difference then is God and his sovereign will. He determines who will be a vessel of honor and who will be destined for ignoble use (such as Pharaoh).

You were a self-confessed "sinner"...and yet you are secure in the knowledge that you will live the "eternal heavenly life"...as you are quietly resting at home awaiting your government stimulus check, if you haven't gotten it already. And there is a little girl in some African nation out there, with a flesh-eating worm in her eye...even though she hasn't been 1/100th of the "sinner" that YOU used to be. And...who knows how many OTHER little kids are out there who are suffering much WORSE fates than this unfortunate little girl.

HOORAY for your God's "justice", and "sovereign grace".

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Actually, my God is mistake-proof, since ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. So, when God allows misery, suffering, pain and sorrow in this world, he is just in doing so because all that is unleashed upon sinners........Blah, blah, blar....

And if the sinner is innocent, without sin, as a 5 or 6 year old child?

What GLORY of god are you speaking of?

Considering the sheer number of innocents suffering, seems to me your Yahweh is nor exactly "mistake-proof."

I knew you could not answer intelligently.
Repeating the same mindless and rot going in circles does not help you

Your hysteria and ranting don't count either

[hcap]

Boxcar, you reduced the age old philosophical dilemma of the "problem of evil" to a bunch of knee-jerking literal fundamentalist biblical slogans. Some rather smart people of all stripes have had ton deal with this, some rather smart Christians even.

You have shamed them by your shallowness and woeful ignorance.


I have been trying to get you to respond intelligently. Is that a lost cause?

The problem of evil is the question of how to reconcile the existence of evil and suffering with an omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omniscient God.

Problem of evil
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

Or as the first known presentation by the Greek philosopher Epicurus, as attributed and made popular by David Hume, puts it: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then from whence comes evil?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

The sole difference between these two groups does not lie in them; for they are both made of the same clay and come from the same lump (Rom 9:21). The difference then is God and his sovereign will. He determines who will be a vessel of honor and who will be destined for ignoble use (such as Pharaoh).

So God has predetermined whether a person will go to heaven or hell before that person is even born? You can live a good life and still go to hell? Or an evil life and still go to heaven? Right this moment Hitler could be in heaven? And Oskar Schindler could be in hell?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Actually, my God is mistake-proof, since ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. So, when God allows misery, suffering, pain and sorrow in this world, he is just in doing so because all that is unleashed upon sinners.

When God "allowed" the Catholic priests to rape the little boys...was God just in doing so because the little boys were all SINNERS?

Quite an argument you are making here.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

So God has predetermined whether a person will go to heaven or hell before that person is even born? You can live a good life and still go to hell? Or an evil life and still go to heaven? Right this moment Hitler could be in heaven? And Oskar Schindler could be in hell?

Yeah, right! And Nero could be in heaven.

You need to be addressing your foolish questions to Light who thinks Hitler, Mao Tse-tung and even Satan himself will be in heaven because loves everyone unconditionally.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

When God "allowed" the Catholic priests to rape the little boys...was God just in doing so because the little boys were all SINNERS?

Quite an argument you are making here.

It's not only a biblical argument, but it's eminently logical. What else could explain mankind's universal moral corruption, if not man's sin nature?

You're also missing another very important fact: God can take evil acts and turn them for good later on.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Boxcar, you reduced the age old philosophical dilemma of the "problem of evil" to a bunch of knee-jerking literal fundamentalist biblical slogans. Some rather smart people of all stripes have had ton deal with this, some rather smart Christians even.

You have shamed them by your shallowness and woeful ignorance.


I have been trying to get you to respond intelligently. Is that a lost cause?

The problem of evil is the question of how to reconcile the existence of evil and suffering with an omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omniscient God.

Problem of evil
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

Or as the first known presentation by the Greek philosopher Epicurus, as attributed and made popular by David Hume, puts it: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then from whence comes evil?

Listen up, Bonehead -- one last time: The problem of Good and Evil was "reconciled" at the Cross of Christ -- where mercy and justice both met and kissed -- where God's love for his elect saints and His justice for sinners also intersected. This is why it is written that God is just AND the justifier of all those who have faith in his Son (Rom 3:26).

I have explained this to you many times. But I can't make you understand it. But meanwhile, stuff your false dilemma up your nose.