Religion III

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by hcap

Have you read about magnetic center?

How many books do you suppose have been written by, or about, Gurdjieff? Could you even guess? Would you believe me if I told you that I have them ALL? And I read about the magnetic center in the first Gurdjieff book that I ever picked up...perhaps 35 years ago. Ouspensky's "Fragments".

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I sent it last week. Try to keep up. You're too dense and I'm too busy to give you anything other than the time of day -- and even that might end soon.

You said...

Also, just recently I sent up another article that debunks this rubbish.

That was about Horus. If not post # bunky.

Originally it sounded like you were saying, you sent it up where the sun don't shine

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

We cannot understand the infinitely more fundamentally important spiritual underpinnings of a parable or a narrative unless we first interpret those parables or narratives in their plain, grammatical, sensible sense -- of things that actually happened in the real world or is generally experienced in the real word. For example, if the Exodus never actually occurred, the deeper, underlying spiritual lessons will never come to fore if we don't draw the parallels between the physical redemption of Israel from physical slavery and the deeper significance of God's spiritual redemption through Christ from mankind's bondage to sin. If God never freed the ancient Hebrews from their bondage to the Egyptians -- if that never happened -- if that was never real -- what would make anyone believe that spiritual redemption is a true reality? Even scripture supports my premise!

When Plato wrote his famous cave analogy, was he basing it on a group of real cave dwellers? Homer's Odyssey,a heroic real sailor, Shakespeare's Hamlet, the real Prince of Denmark?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

When Plato wrote his famous cave analogy, was he basing it on a group of real cave dwellers? Homer's Odyssey,a heroic real sailor, Shakespeare's Hamlet, the real Prince of Denmark?

Did Plato promise his disciples to transform them spiritually? Or did Plato present his cave analogy as an historic event?

Did Plato, Homer or the Bard write about their works what Paul did about the OT scriptures, I quoted earlier?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You said...
That was about Horus. If not post # bunky.

Originally it sounded like you were saying, you sent it up where the sun don't shine

So?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

How many books do you suppose have been written by, or about, Gurdjieff? Could you even guess? Would you believe me if I told you that I have them ALL? And I read about the magnetic center in the first Gurdjieff book that I ever picked up...perhaps 35 years ago. Ouspensky's "Fragments".

Quite a few.

List of Gurdjieff books authored by him and his students
https://ggurdjieff.com/books/

You seemed a bit perplexed...

I read quite a bit...but I don't "know" much at all. And what little I "know" I've picked up from a Russian/Greek named George Gurdjieff. He insisted that no-one should believe ANYTHING that they read...until they tested out its usefulness in everyday life. Gurdjieff's books sat untouched on my bookshelf for over 20 years...because I wasn't ready for his teaching when I was younger. Now...I hope I have enough years left to fully understand what he meant...

The reason I mentioned magnetic center, is as Ouspensky implies the seed of magnetic center is a small part of one, perhaps even from birth, that somehow ‘instinctively’ knows that there must be something behind life - beyond the pursuits of health, making a living, having a family, acquiring friends, etc. This ‘seed’ causes one to digest some of one’s experiences accordingly and begins collecting various Influences B. Possibly leading to C.

I am simply reminding you, your magnetic center "know" more than you think..... from what I gathered briefly interacting with you, and I suspect if not, you wouldn't be still looking beyond the ordinary. Magnetic center is a foundation to help discern the b.s. from the real. However you may want to consider a more direct connection. Influences C

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Did Plato promise his disciples to transform them spiritually? Or did Plato present his cave analogy as an historic event?

Did Plato, Homer or the Bard write about their works what Paul did about the OT scriptures, I quoted earlier?

You are invalidating a tried and true method of biblical interpretation used by renowned biblical sources and scholars, as well as great secular authors, playwright and philosophers.

What Paul "did" whatever that means, as most of the bible, is either distorted, allegorical or total garbage, or a mix of all of the above.

[boxcar]

The absurdity of the allegorical method of interpretation, when used as the prime method of interpretation can be seen in numerous passages in scripture. I'm going to present one such example that involves Jesus' own words. The passage is in Matthew 23 and the context is Jesus' scathing condemnation of his sworn enemies -- the Scribes and Pharisees, i.e. the Jewish religious establishment. And in this passage Jesus pronounces the Seven Woes upon his enemies. Following is one of those woes:

Matt 23:29-36
29 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say,' If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets. ' 31 "Consequently you bear witness against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 "Fill up then the measure of the guilt of your fathers. 33 "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how shall you escape the sentence of hell? 34 "Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35 that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 "Truly I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation.
NASB

Now...the vast majority of unbelievers firmly believe that Adam and Eve, the Fall of Mankind, etc. is a mythical story. Not a grain of historical truth to it. It's all fiction, no historical facts. Well, surely, if Adam and Eve are fictional characters, then Cain and Abel, their first two sons, as scripture alleges, must equally be fictional. Every good, self-respecting infidel who is interested in being consistent with himself would have to believe that Cain and Abel are also fictional characters.

But Jesus, the very embodiment of the Word of God, didn't believe that for a moment! In this particular Woe, he also pronounces a curse upon his detractors -- and this curse would be their guilt for all the righteous blood of God's people that has been shed upon the earth from the very beginning of time, as recorded in the beginning of the Jewish canon to the close of the Jewish canon of the scriptures, which was the Book of Chronicles. (The Jews arranged the order of their inspired scriptures differently than Christians do. The reason I mention this is because the death of the prophet Zechariah is recorded in 2 Chronicles 24.)

To anyone here with an IQ above his waist size, you can already see where I'm going with this. Was Jesus pronouncing this curse upon his detractors and charging them, along with their apostate, murderous fathers, for the shedding of mythical blood!? He was pronouncing this woe upon them for the murder of two specific persons he mentioned who never existed? Would this not render Jesus' words totally absurd?

Further, if these two people never existed, and his detractors also believed this, what possible impact would Jesus words have upon them!? If Jesus is pronouncing a woe upon them for the murder of two mythical characters, what would ever motivate them to take Jesus' words to heart!? What would move them to believe that his "woe" is real, even though the two people above aren't?

The only way around this absurd dilemma is for mythicizers to reduce everything single word of Jesus to an allegorical status, which would result in a twisted, convoluted, incoherent interpretation.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You are invalidating a tried and true method of biblical interpretation used by renowned biblical sources and scholars, as well as great secular authors, playwright and philosophers.

What Paul "did" whatever that means, as most of the bible, is either distorted, allegorical or total garbage, or a mix of all of the above.

It's not "true and tried" if it ain't biblical! And it ain't "true and tried" if the Prophets, Apostles and Jesus didn't interpret scripture that way.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

The absurdity of the allegorical method of interpretation, when used as the prime method of interpretation can be seen in numerous passages in scripture. I'm going to present one such example that involves Jesus' own words........blah, blah, blah.............................................. .................................................. ........

And I am not going to read your tripe or discuss it until you explain clearly why Yahweh purposely murdered Amalekites suckling infants and farm animals, literally. You keep saying you have. You have not.

You are forgetting I never claimed everything in the bible can be viewed as allegorical, much of it is total distorted garbage.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

And I am not going to read your tripe or discuss it until you explain clearly why Yahweh purposely murdered Amalekites suckling infants and farm animals, literally. You keep saying you have. You have not.

You are forgetting I never claimed everything in the bible can be viewed as allegorical, much of it is total distorted garbage.

I have explained it. But like all evil men, you cannot understand divine justice.

And the only "distorted garbage" around these is what comes out of that cesspool that you call your mind.

But here is one explanation. All I would add to it is that God is eternally merciful to all children since it's not his will that any should eternally perish (i.e. suffer the Second Death). Therefore, by God ordering the children to be slaughtered as well, he was actually merciful to them because as the article did point out, those children would have very likely followed in their parents idolatrous footsteps if allowed to grow old. Then they, too, would have suffered eternal damnation, along with their parents.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Canaani...rmination.html

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

How come not one word about the greatest disaster that ever came upon Israel in 70 A.D.? Jerusalem was destroyed. The Jewish temple was destroyed. And Israel ceased to be a nation -- but not one word of this is mentioned in anywhere in the NT.

Not one word? Really?

• Luke 19:43,44 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,... And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another
• Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies
• Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And the only "distorted garbage" around these is what comes out of that cesspool that you call your mind.

Ad hominem attack! Defamatory! Hateful! In violation of PA terms of service. Also not in the spirit of Matthew 5:44 "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you."

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Not one word? Really?

• Luke 19:43,44 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,... And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another
• Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies
• Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Learn to read! You're just as reading-impaired as Hcap -- and that's saying a lot!

Not one word of fulfillment in the NT of any of the prophecies pertaining the Diaspora of 70 A.D.

Here - see if you can pull your head out of the sand for a moment and comprehend this: Suppose someone 5 years ago undertook to write a history of the Jews, and in that voluminous work not one mention is made of the Holocaust? Would you not think that a tiny, wee bit strange? And if the author was a Jew, wouldn't that be beyond weird?

Likewise, we have all these Jewish writers of the NT, yet not one them writes so much as a word about the Diaspora, prophecies being fulfilled -- and this was no small historical event! Contrast that deafening silence with all that Josephus wrote about the Jewish Wars, 70 A.D., etc.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Ad hominem attack! Defamatory! Hateful! In violation of PA terms of service. Also not in the spirit of Matthew 5:44 "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you."

You forgot truthful. I can't recall the last time when Hcap wrote something that could be characterized as even being semi-coherent.

But you're a good sycophant.