Religion II

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The explanation is simple. Some bible stories are allegories...and some are outright fabrications. I am currently reading the works of the Roman Stoic philosopher Seneca...who wrote his numerous works during the Jesus years. He mentions many significant historical figures, but offers not a single reference of the miracle-working "God-man"...whom Seneca's own countrymen executed. Why would Seneca make repeated references of other Greek and Roman significant historical figures...and totally ignore the God-man of Nazareth?

There is also no historical reference to support the mysterious slaughter of thousands of Egyptian firstborn. I mean...we know that history distorts facts...as my own signature tagline clearly indicates. But history can't be accused of being TOTALLY blind...IMO.

Can't escape arguments from silence, can you? You truly are in bondage to this logical fallacy.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Can't escape arguments from silence, can you? You truly are in bondage to this logical fallacy.

You use it yourself.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Can't escape arguments from silence, can you? You truly are in bondage to this logical fallacy.

Face it, Boxcar...the evidence strongly suggests that Jesus wasn't NEARLY as "famous" during his lifetime as he became centuries later. People who resurrect the dead don't usually get shunned by history.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Face it, Boxcar...the evidence strongly suggests that Jesus wasn't NEARLY as "famous" during his lifetime as he became centuries later. People who resurrect the dead don't usually get shunned by history.

Was Seneca a Jew? Did he live in Judea or Galilee or Samaria? What did he witness? Did everyone see Jesus' miracles? Furthermore, did everyone who witnessed Jesus' miracles believe on him?

Now let's switch gears and revisit the Exodus for a moment. Let's pretend that you're an ancient Egyptian -- a son or some relative of Pharaoh who got himself and his army swallowed up by the Red Sea. And since the kings of Egypt were themselves considered to be gods, and got his head handed to him by another God, what does that say about Egypt's god-men?

You're also a pagan like your daddy Pharaoh. You witnessed everything God brought upon Egypt through Moses. You saw Moses kick the butts of your nasty, vile elohims (gods, in case you're wondering). You saw Moses bring devastation to your land like you have never seen or heard of before. The destruction and devastation were unprecedented in Egyptian history. So...after the ancient Hebrews make their getaway across the Red Sea, what do you command all the local newspapers and historian writers to do? Do you tell them, after The Elohim disgraces the Egyptians and brought shame upon them, their gods and their land, to make all those plague events front page news? Do you command the historians to make certain that all future generations of Egyptians share in that shame in humiliation? Or do you just quietly and sheepishly tell all Egyptians to help pick and the pieces and start life over and help restore the land and kingdom to its former glory? Do you tell the people, let's MoveOn.org and put the past behind us, since there's nothing anyone can do to change what happened?

Bad news almost always got suppressed in those ancient cultures were always interested in saving face and putting the best foot forward -- putting up a front, hoping that other unfriendly, opportunistic or war-like nations might not notice your missteps and misfortune because they would only serve to manifest just how vulnerable your own nation is.

Make sense to you? No? Well, it does to me because that is how the ancient world worked to protect their god-kings and all their other elohims.

Have a nice night.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

You use it yourself.

Very rarely and only when a specific situation logically screams for it. Neither of Thask's examples do.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Was Seneca a Jew? Did he live in Judea or Galilee or Samaria? What did he witness? Did everyone see Jesus' miracles? Furthermore, did everyone who witnessed Jesus' miracles believe on him?

Now let's switch gears and revisit the Exodus for a moment. Let's pretend that you're an ancient Egyptian -- a son or some relative of Pharaoh who got himself and his army swallowed up by the Red Sea. And since the kings of Egypt were themselves considered to be gods, and got his head handed to him by another God, what does that say about Egypt's god-men?

You're also a pagan like your daddy Pharaoh. You witnessed everything God brought upon Egypt through Moses. You saw Moses kick the butts of your nasty, vile elohims (gods, in case you're wondering). You saw Moses bring devastation to your land like you have never seen or heard of before. The destruction and devastation were unprecedented in Egyptian history. So...after the ancient Hebrews make their getaway across the Red Sea, what do you command all the local newspapers and historian writers to do? Do you tell them, after The Elohim disgraces the Egyptians and brought shame upon them, their gods and their land, to make all those plague events front page news? Do you command the historians to make certain that all future generations of Egyptians share in that shame in humiliation? Or do you just quietly and sheepishly tell all Egyptians to help pick and the pieces and start life over and help restore the land and kingdom to its former glory? Do you tell the people, let's MoveOn.org and put the past behind us, since there's nothing anyone can do to change what happened?

Bad news almost always got suppressed in those ancient cultures were always interested in saving face and putting the best foot forward -- putting up a front, hoping that other unfriendly, opportunistic or war-like nations might not notice your missteps and misfortune because they would only serve to manifest just how vulnerable your own nation is.

Make sense to you? No? Well, it does to me because that is how the ancient world worked to protect their god-kings and all their other elohims.

Have a nice night.

The ancient Greek philosophers weren't "witnessed" by the world at large either...but that fact didn't keep them out of the history books. And they didn't even resurrect anyone. "Great" men may not write anything down themselves, but they always have eyewitnesses who write things ABOUT them...during their lifetime. The bible doesn't include even a single Jesus reference by anyone who could have been deemed an "eyewitness" of him...during his lifetime, or afterwards.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Bad news almost always got suppressed in those ancient cultures ...

So the Egyptians succeeded in suppressing the story of Moses but failed at suppressing the story of Akhenaten?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Very rarely and only when a specific situation logically screams for it.

By what criteria does a situation "scream for it"?

[Actor]

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Does not specifically address either issue. More generalized drivel.
Amalekites have nothing to do with the crucifixion or the Exodus. A non sequitur.
Provides no allegorical interpretation for the killing of all Egypt's firstborn. Another non sequitur.
More Amalek drivel. Another non sequitur.

If you can allegorize anything in scripture you want to suit your whims and fancy, I can also allegorize anything I want.

Fine argue all you want with my allegorical point of view. I posted what you asked.

Now bunky, Post One Luther allegory explaining his vile, stinking horrific, disgusting, pathetic antisemitism that you evidently support.

If you can. Boy, making this stuff up as you go along must be fun.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

By what criteria does a situation "scream for it"?

The context of scripture and a really dumb argument from a skeptic.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Ad hominen attack by brainless wonders. Wouldn't expect anything less.

And you do approve of their message, right?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

So the Egyptians succeeded in suppressing the story of Moses but failed at suppressing the story of Akhenaten?

Maybe they had a deep state at that time.

And I'd be willing to bet that the story of Akhenaten pales by comparison to what God reigned down on the Egyptians for refusing to let his people leave Egypt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten

By the way, don't forget to notice one little "factoid" in the Wiki account. The Egytpians did try to cover up Mr. Ak's dastardly deed of changing religions. Since they tried that truth, how much more the Exodus account!?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Fine argue all you want with my allegorical point of view. I posted what you asked.

Now bunky, Post One Luther allegory explaining his vile, stinking horrific, disgusting, pathetic antisemitism that you evidently support.

If you can. Boy, making this stuff up as you go along must be fun.

No, you did not post what I wanted. You have utterly failed to cover the specific issues and interpret the writings allegorically for us. Are we supposed to believe that you have a one-size-fits-all allegorical interpretation for every single passage that you don't like?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The ancient Greek philosophers weren't "witnessed" by the world at large either...but that fact didn't keep them out of the history books. And they didn't even resurrect anyone. "Great" men may not write anything down themselves, but they always have eyewitnesses who write things ABOUT them...during their lifetime. The bible doesn't include even a single Jesus reference by anyone who could have been deemed an "eyewitness" of him...during his lifetime, or afterwards.

But Greece was a world power at one time. You do know that, right? But Israel? Hmm...not so much at the time of Jesus.

And you don't read too swell, Jesus did have eyewitnesses to his existence. Peter, James, John, Paul and Jude. And these eyewitnesses wrote many things about Jesus after his ascension but during the time they had the Holy Spirit indwelling who lead them into all truth.

And if Peter, James, John, Paul and Jude wrote lies, then Shirley there would be records of Jews writing their rebuttals to their lies, since the lies would have been considered downright blasphemous to the Jewish religious establishment.