Religion II

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

I did not quote revelations to explain your biblical mess. But rather to illustrate the mess.

Maybe I will thank you later. It's not often I get to speak to Gog and your cousin Magog.

The mess is a result of your own mind. Revelation 20 presents no problems.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Humans are robots.

The world would disagree since robots are never held accountable for anything. But this isn't the way the real world works.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Whatever you say, Dumpty.

So we agree on something besides movies!

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

The world would disagree ...

Argumentum ad populum!. Latin for "argument to the people." Logical fallacy that if enough people believe it then it must be true, or that if enough people don't believe it then it must be false.

Originally Posted by boxcar

... since robots are never held accountable for anything.

That's not the definition of a robot.

Originally Posted by boxcar

But this isn't the way the real world works.

You have no clue how the real world works.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Argumentum ad populum!. Latin for "argument to the people." Logical fallacy that if enough people believe it then it must be true, or that if enough people don't believe it then it must be false.

That's not the definition of a robot.

You have no clue how the real world works.

You're the one who is clueless. The world does not work to your utterly inane robot theory. The real world works on the presumption that choices have consequences and all people on all levels of society treat each other on that basis. This is why we have laws, official enforcement of them, a judicial system, a penal system, etc.

Get in touch with reality someday before it's too late.

[Hank]

Originally Posted by boxcar

The world would disagree since robots are never held accountable for anything. But this isn't the way the real world works.

I hate to break the bad news to to Boxie,but humans are often "wrong" en masse. The "world" would have sworn that the "earth" was the center of the universe and that the sun "rises" in the east. Try again.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You're the one who is clueless.

This from someone who believes that the universe is only 6000 years old when the evidence clearly shows it to be 13.7 billion years old. Who believes that nothing ever died until after a rib woman ate an apple. Who believes that someone whose very existence is in doubt somehow came back to life after being tortured to death. Who very probably believes that the earth is flat and that the sun goes around it. Who very probably believes that tyrannosaurus rex was a vegetarian. Who refuses to read books for fear they might change his mind.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

The mess is a result of your own mind. Revelation 20 presents no problems.

Unless you compare Satan as simply an evil serpent in genesis, created by your god to "tempt Eve", with an evil fallen imprisoned angel of revelations.

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog,

A teeny tiny mini-me of evil, with a full blown cosmic evil.

However since as you told us, god created all of creation including AND cursing the world with evil, god is still responsible for....

1-Not understanding his "gift" of free will was never a gift
2-Mankind's fall and burden of original sin was gods own doing.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Hank

I hate to break the bad news to to Boxie,but humans are often "wrong" en masse. The "world" would have sworn that the "earth" was the center of the universe and that the sun "rises" in the east. Try again.

Another bad analogy. (You libs must be allergic to them!) When I said the "world" doesn't work the way Actor would have believe, I'm talking about reality as we actually KNOW it. I'm talking about life. You, on the other hand, are comparing life as we know it to what the world postulated was probably true -- from a scientific standpoint.

Now, if you can give us a few examples from LIFE whereby we humans are never held accountable for our choices, then go for it. (Infants and the mentally insane don't count.)

But to your credit, you are correct that humans are often wrong 'en masse" when it comes to things of science. Look how many believe in the evolution fiction.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Unless you compare Satan as simply an evil serpent in genesis, created by your god to "tempt Eve", with an evil fallen imprisoned angel of revelations.
A teeny tiny mini-me of evil, with a full blown cosmic evil.

However since as you told us, god created all of creation including AND cursing the world with evil, god is still responsible for....

1-Not understanding his "gift" of free will was never a gift
2-Mankind's fall and burden of original sin was gods own doing.

Satan wasn't created for that purpose. And secondly, Satan didn't tempt Eve. Our own lusts are the source of our temptations.

So you lament your free will? Would you rather be locked away in some environment where your freedom of choice is removed?

Or would you care to be lobotomized?

Since you despise the idea of free will so much, what would you prefer to be instead of a human being?

Or if you were God, how would you have created man, or would you have created him?

And just because you keep saying that the fall of man is God's fault doesn't make it so. Scripture says that God's creation was "very good". Plus I have shown that Adam actually had advantages over the the Last Adam when he came into this world 2,000 years ago. Yet, the Last Adam succeeded where the first one failed! In addition, myriads and myriads of angels freely chose to not rebel with Lucifer. Therefore, free will isn't at fault for the fall of the angels or Adam and Eve.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

This from someone who believes that the universe is only 6000 years old when the evidence clearly shows it to be 13.7 billion years old. Who believes that nothing ever died until after a rib woman ate an apple. Who believes that someone whose very existence is in doubt somehow came back to life after being tortured to death. Who very probably believes that the earth is flat and that the sun goes around it. Who very probably believes that tyrannosaurus rex was a vegetarian. Who refuses to read books for fear they might change his mind.

You're clueless about how life works! Your fatalism theory doesn't wash with the way the world works -- the way life works.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You're clueless about how life works! Your fatalism theory doesn't wash with the way the world works -- the way life works.

What is a "fatalism theory"?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

What is a "fatalism theory"?

Google "fatalism" and learn something. You'll love the philosophy.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Google "fatalism" and learn something. You'll love the philosophy.

Fatalism = predetermines = determinism = non-agency. Right?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Fatalism = predetermines = determinism = non-agency. Right?

Is that your takeaway from what you "learned"?