Religion II

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

"If I were god, I'd have done a better job." Strange to see "ego" mentioned in the same response.

"Banished", the OT concept of YHWH as efficient cause/YHWH "withdrawing" his grace (but not his covenantal commitment) out of justice as a divine attribute, and other aspects such as subsequent wounded nature/concupiscence are in play here. But it will have to do.

Well, I can choose between hcap, Deepak Chopra, Levi Dowling, Jose Silva, Edgar Cayce, Richard Bach, Matthew Fox, or any of the future stars of the "Spirituality good, Religion bad" league, to inform me that the Christ of the bible can be understood in any mysterious, gnostic, esoteric, subjective manner, as long as it's my idea (or theirs) rather than a traditional, corporate understanding because, you know, fixed standards and dogmas (unless forthcoming from the above named) cause conflict, unlike these comboxes where self-help monism co-exists with young earth creationism.

I can write off the trendy and chic love affair with Eastern mysticism by Westerners, so unhindered by reason, logic and metaphysics just as easily as my Christianity, held by many a scripture scholar, is written off. I'm able to see that the rejection of authority ought to extend to my authorities admonishing me in obscure off topic forums, also. I can grasp that it's nothing more than an hermeneutic of suspicion that suggests the true Christ was suppressed in a game of arm wrestle which the Gnostics lost, who then went underground until rescued by relatively contemporary saviors of divine consciousness.

In reading your past performances, when Paul signaled for a left turn at the corner of Phrygia and Galatia (Acts 16:6), allegory or no it was a bane for the West, but I shall remain thankful. I may have stated it before, but "that's what makes a horse race."

Maybe, a bit harsh. hcap has a valid point about holiness being a way of life. The question for many is which way lo life leads to holiness. If someone does not understand who Jesus is will not understand the way of holiness, which can be obtained by only following Jesus.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Maybe, a bit harsh. hcap has a valid point about holiness being a way of life. The question for many is which way lo life leads to holiness. If someone does not understand who Jesus is will not understand the way of holiness, which can be obtained by only following Jesus.

Yes..."following Jesus" in the power of the Holy Spirit. No one can follow Jesus in the flesh (sinful nature).

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Hank

Excellent post Cap. It will be lost on your interlocutor,buy many others can appreciate it. Note the Pavlovian rejection of the beautiful CS Lewis quote.

The map/ territory confusion has been spoken of before the paper that Alfred Korzybski gave at a meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in 1931.

In Zen, the roshi points to the Moon above. If the student fixates on the roshi's finger, the poor inattentive student gets a severe whack from the roshi's staff.

Often practcioners of the Abrahamic religions don't aim for at the Moon, as they are told to, rather they have devolved and became fixated "Korzybski-style", on analyzing endless "holy words", in lieu of the Moon. Sometimes they get close, but in my opinion a more direct approach is needed. Prayer and meditation suppress the endless chattering distraction of words

Oh well.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

The map/ territory confusion has been spoken of before the paper that Alfred Korzybski gave at a meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in 1931.

In Zen, the roshi points to the Moon above. If the student fixates on the roshi's finger, the poor inattentive student gets a severe whack from the roshi's staff.

Often practcioners of the Abrahamic religions don't aim for at the Moon, as they are told to, rather they have devolved and became fixated "Korzybski-style", on analyzing endless "holy words", in lieu of the Moon. Sometimes they get close, but in my opinion a more direct approach is needed. Prayer and meditation suppress the endless chattering distraction of words

Oh well.

Born again Christians "fixate" on God Word because his every word is what Christians live on, spiritually.

[Show Me the Wire]

Due to our first parents ingesting the poison of disorder of body and soul and relationships between each other and God, mankind was locked in sin. Jesus died to save us from sin, but for many people these two phrases are meaningless. One of the disorders, the disorder of relationship between human beings leads to scapegoating and the killing of innocent ones, we blame. As long as we blame others we promote and nurture fatalism.

see: https://dwightlongenecker.com/fatali...ed-everything/

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Maybe, a bit harsh. hcap has a valid point about holiness being a way of life. The question for many is which way lo life leads to holiness. If someone does not understand who Jesus is will not understand the way of holiness, which can be obtained by only following Jesus.

"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

A child is pure attention, directly experiencing life. Everything is brand spanking new. The intellect has not been "trained" yet. There are less pre-conceptions altering, and weighing and comparing new information.

Why is that children learn so much quicker and easier than adults?

The soon to be constant judgment based on what has been absorbed in previous encounters has not yet kicked in fully.

In Zen there is much discussion of "emptiness" or the "void".
In meditation, stillness sometimes points to the this void.
While meditating the intellect or usual mind is passive until it is called on to analyze and judge. Meditation is a microcosm for the balance of the two trees in life, described n Genesis

The substitution of the overly active mind, for experiencing life freshly, gets in the way.

Knowledge is still part of proper life, but it's proper use must be include wisdom


“I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.” ~ Mark Twain

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by hcap

A child is pure attention, directly experiencing life. Everything is brand spanking new. The intellect has not been "trained" yet. There are less pre-conceptions altering, and weighing and comparing new information.

And yet, if you ask Boxcar what Jesus meant by that "children" quote...he will tell you that Jesus was referring to the "faith" that little kids have in their parents. That's the nice thing about "religion"; you see in it whatever you WANT to see.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

And yet, if you ask Boxcar what Jesus meant by that "children" quote...he will tell you that Jesus was referring to the "faith" that little kids have in their parents. That's the nice thing about "religion"; you see in it it whatever you WANT to see.

That's interesting. Don't remember that insanity. However there was much discussion on original sin.

Still trying to see if SWTW's present posts are going in that direction.

Show Me?

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by hcap

A child is pure attention, directly experiencing life. Everything is brand spanking new. The intellect has not been "trained" yet. There are less pre-conceptions altering, and weighing and comparing new information.

Knowledge is still part of proper life, but it's proper use must be include wisdom

Yes, knowledge is a part of life, especially spiritual life, knowing self and knowing God. Knowing disorder and its effects and knowing order.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Yes, knowledge is a part of life, especially spiritual life, knowing self and knowing God. Knowing disorder and its effects and knowing order.

Are you speaking of original sin in your previews posts?

Btw, dnlgfnk seems to discount knowing oneself as a "trendy", "chic" and a new age only philosophy

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

And yet, if you ask Boxcar what Jesus meant by that "children" quote...he will tell you that Jesus was referring to the "faith" that little kids have in their parents. That's the nice thing about "religion"; you see in it whatever you WANT to see.

26 He also said, “This is what the kingdom of God is like. A man scatters seed on the ground. 27 Night and day, whether he sleeps or gets up, the seed sprouts and grows, though he does not know how. 28 All by itself the soil produces grain—first the stalk, then the head, then the full kernel in the head. 29 As soon as the grain is ripe, he puts the sickle to it, because the harvest has come.” (Mk 4:26-29) [emphasis added]

Did the person who scattered the seed have the faith of a child?

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by hcap

Are you speaking of original sin in your previews posts?

Btw, dnlgfnk seems to discount knowing oneself as a "trendy", "chic" and a new age only philosophy

Yes, the original poison of disorder. Disorder of body and soul, disorder of relationships between each other and separation from God. Did you read the fatalism and free will reference I posted?

I can't speak for dnlgfnk, but I believe he is referring to certain "esoteric" knowledge, because he questioned where this specific "esoteric" knowledge originated.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by hcap

Are you speaking of original sin in your previews posts?

Btw, dnlgfnk seems to discount knowing oneself as a "trendy", "chic" and a new age only philosophy

Dnlgfnk is half-right...TALKING and READING about Eastern mysticism has indeed become "trendy", and "chic". Just look how many "Eastern philosophy" books are published and sold each year in this country. But "talking" and 'reading' about a particular philosophy/religion isn't the same as LIVING THE LIFE that this philosophy/religion instructs...just as 'talking' about discipline isn't the same as living the "disciplined life". And...LIVING by the standards set by Eastern mysticism certainly isn't "trendy", or "chic".

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Dnlgfnk is half-right...TALKING and READING about Eastern mysticism has indeed become "trendy", and "chic". Just look how many "Eastern philosophy" books are published and sold each year in this country. But "talking" and 'reading' about a particular philosophy/religion isn't the same as LIVING THE LIFE that this philosophy/religion instructs...just as 'talking' about discipline isn't the same as living the "disciplined life". And...LIVING by the standards set by Eastern mysticism certainly isn't "trendy", or "chic".

I agree living by the standards set by Eastern mysticism isn't "trendy" or "chic".

Now I have a few questions maybe you or hcap can answer. One of Buddhism's basis beliefs is reincarnation, correct? Reincarnation is the remedy for living an disordered life, meaning you failed to live properly and thus you are recycled into life to try again and the cycle is repeated until you live an ordered life, and at that point the cycle is broken, correct?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

26 He also said, “This is what the kingdom of God is like. A man scatters seed on the ground. 27 Night and day, whether he sleeps or gets up, the seed sprouts and grows, though he does not know how. 28 All by itself the soil produces grain—first the stalk, then the head, then the full kernel in the head. 29 As soon as the grain is ripe, he puts the sickle to it, because the harvest has come.” (Mk 4:26-29) [emphasis added]

Did the person who scattered the seed have the faith of a child?

I'm not sure that I understand you here...but I still insist that the calling card of all religions is that we all see in them whatever we want to see. For instance...Jesus spoke against the hoarding of our future "necessities", and told us that we should not obsess about the "morrow"...trusting instead that our heavenly father would provide for us, just as he does for the birds and the fish. And yet...do we have this sort of "faith" in our heavenly father...or do we keep stashing our money in the bank..."just in case"?

We like Jesus when we agree with him...but we raise an eyebrow at him when the "going gets tough".