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Old 09-02-2019, 12:06 PM   #16
GMB@BP
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I love listening to very knowledgeable people talk about horse racing, these guys are at the top of the list.
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Old 09-02-2019, 05:13 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by dnlgfnk View Post
My original point was simply Santa Monica vs. Get Explicit, and that Beyer, if he ever truly embraced trip handicapping race in, race out, would never have preferred Get Explicit over Monica Saturday, based upon what he called a kindergarten-level judgement (ground loss) in the early eighties.
That's a beauty of trip handicapping.

The impact of ground loss is NOT just mathematics. It depends on how the track was playing (inside/outside), how much extra energy the horse expended by being wide, whether the individual horse runs well inside/outside etc..

The impact of pace is also NOT just mathematics. Again, it depends on how the track was playing that day (how tiring), how much natural speed/stamina the horse has, whether the horse was battling or loose, whether the horse got its preferred position or got outrun, what kind of turn of foot the horse has late if the pace was slow etc..

Then there are more subtle visual things.

Everyone knows the basics given clear cut extremes, but many of these things fall into grey areas where informed people might disagree, especially when they are mixed for the same horse in the same race.
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Old 09-02-2019, 05:28 PM   #18
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Yes, I think the marketing of speed figures cements his focus on the technical aspects of figures themselves, rather than on the inner dynamics of a horse race that produce the figs.

I'm belaboring this, but I hadn't seen Andy B. interpret a race in quite a while, and it was odd for me to witness Andy S. talking the language of "how was the figure earned" in opposition to Andy B., who wrote his last two works essentially on that topic.
Andy B. has embraced trip handicapping since the 80s and while he has his name on the numbers he is certainly not one dimensional. Because trip handicapping is so subjective, it is not hard to see how 2 handicappers can view the trips differently.
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Old 09-02-2019, 11:23 PM   #19
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I love listening to very knowledgeable people talk about horse racing, these guys are at the top of the list.
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:23 PM   #20
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I love listening to very knowledgeable people talk about horse racing, these guys are at the top of the list.
While overall I thought the show was excellent, I would argue the content is well below how the top players of the game analyze a race. I would not describe myself as a "top" player by any means, but having been to the NHC a couple of times and observing over my 35+ years of playing the game, the discussion for the most part was pretty high level and generalized. Which is, of course, the point of Talking Horses.

Give me a show where professionals (that is players who make a living or a substantial profit from their wagers) dice up the card, and I think you'd find two categories - computer whizzes heavy on stats grinding out profits with percentages, or the patient ones laying in the weeds and passing on 19 out of 20 races, and only playing where they have a big edge.

Beyer's contribution to the game is priceless, especially for amateurs like myself. Insight from his books, plus their entertainment value just as great stories are one of many reasons I came to love the sport. But it's always been a important part of the handicapping approach to form my opinions.

My favorite part of the show was when Serling strongly disagreed with Beyer but stated he was "cutting him some slack", or words to that effect, as opposed to having Argona or Stabile in the other chair. I just had to laugh. How "big" of The Little Guy to be polite for a change, as opposed to his usual antics...
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Old 09-15-2019, 04:01 PM   #21
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How "big" of The Little Guy to be polite for a change, as opposed to his usual antics...
Funny...
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