Ortiz makes Zero effort to get lead and loses with massive show wagers.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

Boom. Right on the money.

I agree too.

There is very little downside to checking betting patterns and ensuring the integrity of the sport to fans.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I agree that a race like this SHOULD be examined closely.

When a 1/5 favorite runs out in a graded race and there is something like a minus show pool involved, it should be a matter of course to launch a preliminary investigation in search of any strange betting activity on all fronts.

Most if not all tracks employ automatic post-race drug testing for the horse involved in such races...so why not also examine the betting patterns in such races as well? It's actually quite telling that this is NOT already the status quo in the USA.

I couldn't agree more.

Some states have the testing for a big fav that runs out on the books.

It's automatic.

No idea about that state.

Managements as well as Stewards inefficiency is tough to watch sometimes.

It is stunning to me that so little effort is put towards customer relations.

When 1-5's run out, THAT is as much a customer relations thing as it is anything.

If the customer feels uneasy about any product, they will cease to support it.

It's like they want to fail their fan base.

Just somebody, anybody, at the track please step the hell up and do something !

[razor]

I think Asmussen and Santana had a falling out around the time Gun Runner
came to Oaklawn. He bought Geroux with him who had the mount on Gun Runner along with a couple more Asmussen horses. After that day Asmussen used Franco and Eramia until Luis Contreras came to town. I read where Asmussen said Luis was moving his tack from California and would ride first
call for him which is exactly what happened. I believe the only horse Santana has rode for him since Southwest Day is Lookin at Lee in the Rebel. Contreras didn't have a mount in the Rebel and I was curious why he put Irad on instead of his first call jock.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by EasyGoer89

Nice post!

Have you seen in your career that jockeys tend to want/listen to instructions? I'm under the impression that some of the top guys get 'insulted' if you tell them what to do, not sure if lower rung jocks listen more, I think a lot of trainers might not want to tell a jock how to ride just like they don't want anyone telling them how to train. What's your experience with this, I'd love to hear inside thoughts on 'instructions'

I never had a problem with any rider not wanting to hear what I had to say. What I said was more an informational on the horses likes or dislikes.
Sure, I would mention no pace or plenty of speed both sides of you or whatever, but more as a general overview of the way the early part might set up.
Telling them that they loaf on the lead late, or don't hit them or they will sulk or they are blind in a certain eye. No ears in the gate, won't run inside a horse late, etc. That stuff is vital info.
I would not try and tell them how to ride.
So I think as long as you are telling them stuff that will actually help them out it's fine.
I have heard other trainers in stalls next to me in the paddock trying to draw the jocks a road map before the race. That's just stupid IMO.
If I was a rider that would irritate me.

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I agree that a race like this SHOULD be examined closely.

When a 1/5 favorite runs out in a graded race and there is something like a minus show pool involved, it should be a matter of course to launch a preliminary investigation in search of any strange betting activity on all fronts.

Most if not all tracks employ automatic post-race drug testing for the horse involved in such races...so why not also examine the betting patterns in such races as well? It's actually quite telling that this is NOT already the status quo in the USA.

I don't agree, especially in this case. I just selected your post but saw several agreeing with you on this so I'm not picking on you.

This thread was started implying that Ortiz compromised the horse's Win chances much less to even Show in this race. I saw the replay provided and didn't see anything which Ortiz did anything to hurt the horse's chances. It looked like the horse herself and the fact she was being boxed in by the other riders/horses did the compromising.

I saw at least three situations during the race where the horse was impeded and as mentioned previously 3x's is difficult to overcome for most horses.

[linrom1]

Originally Posted by whodoyoulike

I don't agree, especially in this case. I just selected your post but saw several agreeing with you on this so I'm not picking on you.

This thread was started implying that Ortiz compromised the horse's Win chances much less to even Show in this race. I saw the replay provided and didn't see anything which Ortiz did anything to hurt the horse's chances. It looked like the horse herself and the fact she was being boxed in by the other riders/horses did the compromising.

I saw at least three situations during the race where the horse was impeded and as mentioned previously 3x's is difficult to overcome for most horses.

There are very knowledgeable racing professionals who analyze races for a living for major US Media outlets. Other than not wanting to publicly accuse Irad of malfeasance they overwhelming AGREE with OP assessment of how the race was run.

Have a good day.

[classhandicapper]

I just finished my review of the OP card and I agree with something Lemon Drop Husker mentioned near the beginning of the thread. I don't think speed on the rail was the ideal trip at Oaklawn on 3/18. It may not have been death in there, but I'm pretty sure you didn't want to get involved in a duel while on the rail if you had the choice.

I don't know if that played into Ortiz's thinking, but he may have had a sense that gunning inside was not ideal and that's why he wasn't aggressive. Of course it turned into a mess either way, but that could explain it.

Also, I think it's possible that Terra Promessa was not quite as good as she looked going into that race anyway. In my notes I have Oaklawn as mildly favoring inside speed the day of her last race when she won impressively and earned her best Beyer.

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by linrom1

There are very knowledgeable racing professionals who analyze races for a living for major US Media outlets. Other than not wanting to publicly accuse Irad of malfeasance they overwhelming AGREE with OP assessment of how the race was run.

Have a good day.

I'm guessing you watched the race or replay.

So, why not provide your interpretation instead of making up your mind based on these "knowledgeable racing professionals who analyze races for a living for major US Media outlets"?

I still stand that the horse caused part or most of the problems.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by linrom1

There are very knowledgeable racing professionals who analyze races for a living for major US Media outlets. Other than not wanting to publicly accuse Irad of malfeasance they overwhelming AGREE with OP assessment of how the race was run.

Have a good day.

knowledgeable racing professionals who analyze races for a living for major US Media outlets.

Oh Lord.

Whole problem with Industry is that they hire "Experts" and pay "Experts" who aren't experts at all. Experts time races at Gulfstream for $800 a day. Gulfstream gave up on accurately timing races.

[EasyGoer89]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

knowledgeable racing professionals who analyze races for a living for major US Media outlets.

Oh Lord.

Whole problem with Industry is that they hire "Experts" and pay "Experts" who aren't experts at all. Experts time races at Gulfstream for $800 a day. Gulfstream gave up on accurately timing races.

800 a day? Where can I sign up!

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by EasyGoer89

800 a day? Where can I sign up!

Yes, $800 a day and that was 3 years ago. On top of that there are politics involved. Who Owns Trakus?

[Racetrack Playa]

Steve Byk and TLG talked about this race yesterday, it became Un-listenable , and annoying, here ya go
http://stevebyk.com/broadcast/hour-2...eid-mcclellan/

Terra Promessa didn't fire at all @ remington in Dec.(ShesAllIn) had the lead and I think faded.
Next in the Apple Blossom does she romp?

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by whodoyoulike

I don't agree, especially in this case. I just selected your post but saw several agreeing with you on this so I'm not picking on you.

This thread was started implying that Ortiz compromised the horse's Win chances much less to even Show in this race. I saw the replay provided and didn't see anything which Ortiz did anything to hurt the horse's chances. It looked like the horse herself and the fact she was being boxed in by the other riders/horses did the compromising.

I saw at least three situations during the race where the horse was impeded and as mentioned previously 3x's is difficult to overcome for most horses.

I think we most all agree that this was no stiff job or collusion or any nonsense.

The thing the race track has NEVER seemed to display for it's fans is that they will protect them wherever possible.

Perception is really important in any industry, especially gambling related.

If management took steps to insure confidence in the integrity of the game, even though most, but not everyone, feels this was not that, it gives customers a feeling that someone gives a damn.
That goes a long way to running any successful business.
Was this that? No. Not from what I saw. But what I saw does not matter.

But how good would it make customers feel if those in charge were pro active towards making sure the integrity of the game was not in question.

Support the fan base and they will support you. That is a winning business model. Not the nonsense that we see especially lately in Louisiana. What a crock of crap that is.
IMO Racing needs a commissioner. Until then, it stays decades behind other successful sporting ventures.

So many passionate fans.

What a waste.

Just one guys opinion though.

[Racetrack Playa]

also IMO Racing needs a commissioner. Until then, it stays decades behind other successful sporting ventures.

So many passionate fans.

What a waste.
running amok
Just another guys opinion though

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Racetrack Playa

also IMO Racing needs a commissioner. Until then, it stays decades behind other successful sporting ventures.

So many passionate fans.

What a waste.
running amok
Just another guys opinion though

I 1000000% agree.