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11-07-2022, 11:30 AM
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#1
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C'est Tout
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cajunland
Posts: 13,253
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The Euros
Was the North American turf group that bad or were they just too good?
Friday:
> Juvy Turf Sprint: Euros run 1st-2nd-4th-5th
> Juvy Fillies Turf: Euros run 1st-4th with Meditate inhaling the field. Fourth finisher Midnight Mile had some trouble in the lane and may have gotten a better placing
> Juvy Turf: Euros run 1st-2nd with Moore and Buick (who both had great weekends).
Saturday wasn't much better:
> Turf Sprint: Caravel somehow gets it done for North America, despite being beaten by the boys about six times in a row (where the F did that performance come from?) Euros took down 4 of the next 5 placings though.
> Filly & Mare Turf: Tuesday comes rolling home under Ryan Moore for another Euro victory. In Italian (bred in Great Britain) ran a fantastic race. She was motoring along in 22.82-46.38-110.31 and was a clear 2nd.
> Mile: same old same old...Modern Games swung 7-8 wide in the lane and powered home. Euros also ran 3rd-5th-6th-7th in the race.
> Turf: another tour de force, this time by Rebels Romance, who poured it on to win going away. Euros ran 1-2 and had 5 of the top 6 finishers in the race, all of them being Irish breds.
In Italian & War Like Goddess both ran well.
Annapolis & Regal Glory disappointed - the former got the dream trip to end all dream trips in his prep at Kee and then drew the 11 hole on Sat, so that performance could have been predicted. Regal Glory just looked flat.
The Wesley Ward trio was terrible in the Turf Sprint.
__________________
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Last edited by PhantomOnTour; 11-07-2022 at 11:31 AM.
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11-07-2022, 11:57 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,046
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Europe dominating is nothing new. North America's turf division perennially is made up of Euro cast-offs (bleeders or second raters) that may have an advantage at times by the fact that they have had a chance to acclimatize to NA racing & training (and don't have to ship internationally for the BC). Rare is there a NA-produced horse that is truly on terms with the top ranked Euros (Manila, Wise Dan, Tenpins).
That aside, the other factors in play are the lopsided dominance of Coolmore & Godolphin on the international scene over the last few years.
Coolmore usually throws whatever they can at every race, so they can be hit or miss (usually 'miss' judging by AOB's NA stats), but they had a great BC this year & often garner placings (or even wins) with their duds, second-tier horses or even pacesetters (Order of Australia, Stone Age, Broome).
Charlie Appleby sustains a near 40% win percentage (and I think his on-the-board percentage clears 80%) all season long in Europe and his NA percentage is probably higher. And it's not just one or two stable stars; every starter seems to come with a big run.
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11-07-2022, 04:41 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 310
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From Racing Post:
Appleby this season was a 31% Win S/R, 56% ITM.
Last 5 seasons 29% win, 56% ITM
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11-07-2022, 06:42 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamt
From Racing Post:
Appleby this season was a 31% Win S/R, 56% ITM.
Last 5 seasons 29% win, 56% ITM
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Thanks.
To me, "all season" means only the last 2 weeks. Appleby is 10 for 25 with 11 placings (40%, 84% respectively).
In NA this year he is 8 for 17 with 6 placings (47%, 82%).
The numbers you posted were for Great Britain only. Adding in NA, France (3 for 12 with 7 placings), and Germany (2 for 3 with 1 placing...though not sure if that is all he started there) my exaggeration is less severe at 32% and 59%.
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11-07-2022, 10:12 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 36
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Aidan Patrick O'Brien is the greatest trainer since Vincent O'Brien and if you can't understand this, your math skills are quite poor.
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11-07-2022, 10:50 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROK
Aidan Patrick O'Brien is the greatest trainer since Vincent O'Brien and if you can't understand this, your math skills are quite poor.
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I'd love to read why you think that. Especially if you are going to use math to back it up.
These hit & run posts proclaiming "BS" or making grand assertions with no substance are pretty boring.
It's a message board, not Twitter.
Maybe instead of having a limited number of characters you can put into one post as on Twitter, you should be forced to type at least 4 complete sentences when posting here.
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11-08-2022, 12:26 AM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 36
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Hit and run?, twitter?, I have no idea what you're talking about.
You have posted anti-O'Brien stuff numerous times. I rarely post. Sorry, but that is how I see it. Maybe I am being unfair to you, if so, I am sorry.
As to what I posted, it's very simple. In math terms, it comes down to the level of difficulty. Aidan travels everywhere, all around the world. He puts his horses in the most difficult situations and he never ducks anyone. And some times he pays the price for this. In contrast, there is a top American turf trainer who is highly regarded. His win% is very high, but the level of difficulty for his horses is very low. American turf races are not of the highest quality as I am sure you know. And he rarely, if ever, travels outside of North America. I believe if he traveled to France, Ireland, Australia, Hong Kong and Britain -- in short -- all of the places O'Brien's horses can be found regularly, his record would be much less impressive. It's the Level of Difficulty factor.
By the way, I too, respect this American trainer and I am using him only to make my point. I am not knocking him in any way.
Aidan well outperforms most, if not all, when you consider this 'degree of difficulty' factor.
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11-04-2023, 03:21 PM
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#8
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C'est Tout
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cajunland
Posts: 13,253
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BUMP
Well on our way to another Eurobashing on turf. They will likely rule the Mile and Turf.
Chad Brown has been the only one to beat them so far
__________________
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-David Byrne
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