Deceased shooter of the school in Nashville has been identified as #trans person

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by azeri98

Ok so ban the magazines then but there is no appetite for that either. Whatever you have to do so innocent people can't be mowed down in a matter of seconds. It's common sense

How far can the average person run in 3 seconds? That is how long it takes me to change a magazine. That includes ejecting the spent one and pulling the loaded one from a pocket. I also have carpal tunnel bad in my left wrist which gives me 50% numb and stiff fingers. The right wrist is effected also, I would call that hand 75% good. I also have fat fingers. The point is that 3 seconds is slow, I have seen You Tube videos of guys so quick changing 10 round magazines I swear I could barely see their hand move. I bet they are cutting my time in half. I honestly don't think limiting magazine size to 10 rounds will do much to save lives in these mass shootings.


Also if you ban something only sane law abiding people won't use them. A box magazine is a couple pieces of formed metal and a spring, it is made to wide open tolerances, they will last forever if properly stored. Like with guns there are so many out there if everyone stopped making them there are probably a big enough supply to keep criminals and insane people in guns and magazines for 1,000 years. The barn door was left wide open and the horses are nowhere to be seen.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by azeri98

Yes but that is a lot harder to do, you have to have the know how and not blow yourself up. Its a lot easier with a gun.

I am not sure what the federal statute of limitation on manufacture and detonation of illegal explosive devices is. If it is over 40 years let us say I knew a couple guys who made pipe bombs and detonated them out in the woods. There where areas people would illegally dump when the free dumping station was closed, these guys I knew would blow up TVs, refrigerators, etc.
They aren't dangerous to the user if you used a long enough fuse.



They were real daredevils, they were only a few miles from a CHP station, while they were mostly traffic cops, I am sure they would go investigate an explosion.



Also a lot of those mass killers are prepared to die, that makes them even more dangerous.

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HYPE UP THE WEAPON, ignore the manifesto

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[azeri98]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I don't think the debate should be about guns vs. knives.

Of course guns are more dangerous that knives.

Of course you can still kill plenty of people with knives.

However, if I'm some depressed and extremely angry young person that's hell bent on killing people there are a LOT of other options for a mass killing that don't involve guns.

1. I can drive my car into into a crowd
2. I can slip a little rat poison into the salad bar while no one is looking
3. I can set a fire
4. I can learn how to make a small bomb

If someone is determined to kill a lot of people they will find a way.

I want to be clear, that doesn't mean we can't also try to make it as difficult as possible for them. There are probably some rules we could put in place on guns that reduce these shootings too.

My major objection to going overboard on the regulations is that I don't trust the government. I trust it even less now than before Covid.

During Covid we saw them mandate lockdowns, destroy people's jobs and careers, prevent them from traveling, etc.. just because they wouldn't take a vaccine that was already clearly demonstrated to be failing and riskier than they advertised by August of 2021. That was even true when the person could prove they already had Covid and had better immunity than the vaccinated.

In Canada we saw them lock people's bank accounts and arrest them if they chose to protest mandates.

These are corrupt incompetents with totalitarian tendencies. They are dangerous to freedom.

The counter is always going to be what can you do with a gun. They have the army, air force, marines. bombs etc..

If push came to shove and they went so overboard that millions of armed Americans went to DC, IMHO the police, army, air force, marines etc.. would all stand down and many would probably be on the people's side. And the leftists would run out of town to safety. Without the guns, they'd be more likely to go overboard (as they started doing in Canada, Australia and elsewhere) and we'd have zero options.

We need some decent regulation, but we also need an armed citizenry.

Sorry for the long vent. I do see both sides to this argument, but I'm getting frustrated and pissed off.

Yes they locked people accounts who donated to the convoy protest which I think was wrong. Yes you are right. there are many ways to kill a lot of people but the gun seems to be the most efficient way and the 1st choice among people who want to kill a group of people. I'm not for eliminating the gun. Its necessary for self defense but the type of weaponry available now is so over the top in terms of self defense. I doubt you could get millions of people to agree on anything much less a takeover of DC. It would be one side attacking the other depending on who is in power. I doubt the military would sit it out

[azeri98]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So...according to you, if someone has a serious mental illness they're in a database? Really? How come they're not in a mental institution.

Also, you didn't tackle all three of my questions.

And, yes, I know the difference between depression and insanity. I was just using sarcastic hyperbole. However there is a very thin line that separates clinical depression from insanity.

And by the way, not one of us is 100% rationale. We're all irrational to one degree or another.

You couldn't build enough mental institutions to house all the mentally ill people that are out there. Just because you are depressed that doesn't mean you are a danger to others, probably more so to yourself. If a person who shows violent tendencies towards others or wishes harm to someone else while under a doctors care would be put into a database so that they are not legally allowed to obtain weapons.

[azeri98]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

How far can the average person run in 3 seconds? That is how long it takes me to change a magazine. That includes ejecting the spent one and pulling the loaded one from a pocket. I also have carpal tunnel bad in my left wrist which gives me 50% numb and stiff fingers. The right wrist is effected also, I would call that hand 75% good. I also have fat fingers. The point is that 3 seconds is slow, I have seen You Tube videos of guys so quick changing 10 round magazines I swear I could barely see their hand move. I bet they are cutting my time in half. I honestly don't think limiting magazine size to 10 rounds will do much to save lives in these mass shootings.


Also if you ban something only sane law abiding people won't use them. A box magazine is a couple pieces of formed metal and a spring, it is made to wide open tolerances, they will last forever if properly stored. Like with guns there are so many out there if everyone stopped making them there are probably a big enough supply to keep criminals and insane people in guns and magazines for 1,000 years. The barn door was left wide open and the horses are nowhere to be seen.

If it takes 3 seconds that could be enough time to disarm a shooter. There was an example not to long ago in a club, where the shooter had to reload and was taken down while doing so. You're talking about experts at changing magazines who practice. I doubt most of these mass shooters practice changing magazines. Something has to be done to make it harder for this to happen on such a regular basis.

[azeri98]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

I am not sure what the federal statute of limitation on manufacture and detonation of illegal explosive devices is. If it is over 40 years let us say I knew a couple guys who made pipe bombs and detonated them out in the woods. There where areas people would illegally dump when the free dumping station was closed, these guys I knew would blow up TVs, refrigerators, etc.
They aren't dangerous to the user if you used a long enough fuse.



They were real daredevils, they were only a few miles from a CHP station, while they were mostly traffic cops, I am sure they would go investigate an explosion.



Also a lot of those mass killers are prepared to die, that makes them even more dangerous.

Right it just a lot easier to go buy a gun then to learn how to build a bomb, buy all the materials and then hoping you did it right and not blowing yourself up. The gun is the easiest and most efficient way.

[xtb]

Originally Posted by azeri98

If a person who shows violent tendencies towards others or wishes harm to someone else while under a doctors care would be put into a database so that they are not legally allowed to obtain weapons.

We have that already, it's called NICS, National Instant Criminal Background Check System. FFL's are required to check this database before selling a firearm. Since 2016 it includes the mentally ill. We don't know the details on how this person in Tennessee obtained her weapons, do you? As I already said, if the system failed, it needs to be fixed. Taking guns, any guns away from law abiding people is not the answer.

[azeri98]

Originally Posted by ElKabong

Chicago has tougher gun laws than where I live. Chicago is infinitely more dangerous than nacogdoches or lufkin.

It comes down to mental health. In the 60s 70s, 80s there was a drawback of resources to the issue for differing reasons. Imo, stop the never ending funding of foreign wars that have little consequence to us, stop funding illegals once they cross our border, and shore up and reduce social services to able bodied people under 70yo. That could easily fund the needs

Yes but I'm pretty sure Chicago has a lot more people than where you live. Yes mental heath absolutely has something to do with it. Do you think mentally ill people should be allowed to buy guns?

[azeri98]

Originally Posted by ElKabong

It happens often enough. Just Google stabbings every week. Never ends. Last fall I saw where 10 were killed in Canada and another 15 were wounded in a single attack

First off, you cannot keep "assualt rifles" out of the hands of evil people's possession. We all wish that was the case but it's not.. And if :"assault rifles " were to somehow vanish, mentally unstable people with bad intentions will still find a way to harm the innocent.

I don't own a firearm, haven't for decades. But I support the 2nd ammendment and like the idea of having the option to bear arms.

Yes stabbings happen all the time everywhere but its usually one or 2 people at most, not 10 or more. Look i also agree with the right to bear arms especially in the times we live in but with the type of weaponry available to regular citizens is ridiculous. its irresponsible

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by azeri98

If it takes 3 seconds that could be enough time to disarm a shooter. There was an example not to long ago in a club, where the shooter had to reload and was taken down while doing so. You're talking about experts at changing magazines who practice. I doubt most of these mass shooters practice changing magazines. Something has to be done to make it harder for this to happen on such a regular basis.

It doesn't take an expert to change a magazine, push a button or lever and they drop out due to gravity, push another one in. That 3 seconds is slow, because I have bad hands. It is all about dexterity and hand speed, nothing to do with knowing how to handle firearms.


I honestly think if you banned all rifles that high capacity magazines are available for, which is a long list, casualties on school shootings would not drop. Even if all such rifles disappeared out of the country. People would then turn to handguns, which are easier to conceal and maneuver. You can also get box magazines to hold 33 rounds and 50 round drums, and 100 double drums for 9mm handguns. Load a person up with 9mm hollow points and they will do the same or more damage in a school shooting than the notorious AR-15.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by azeri98

You couldn't build enough mental institutions to house all the mentally ill people that are out there. Just because you are depressed that doesn't mean you are a danger to others, probably more so to yourself. If a person who shows violent tendencies towards others or wishes harm to someone else while under a doctors care would be put into a database so that they are not legally allowed to obtain weapons.

So you're suggesting that all or most the perps of mass shootings were already under a doctor's care? I thought we were talking about more strict gun control laws...as in requiring everyone who wants a gun to get a psyche evaluation?