Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Racing Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 02-04-2019, 11:18 AM   #1
spiketoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 361
Arizona racehorses are dying at a record rate. The question is: why?

Why? My first take...

'Kevin Eikleberry, a leading trainer, and others attributed the fatality rate to inferior horses. Because Turf Paradise revenues are relatively low, he said, purses are too small to attract top-flight animals.'

'Scott Stevens, a top jockey, agreed that Arizona gets "some of the lower-end claiming horses," which may account for deaths.'

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...te/2585283002/
spiketoo is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-04-2019, 03:27 PM   #2
Appy
Registered User
 
Appy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Flint Hills
Posts: 474
Just off the cuff I'd have a hard time blaming the horses. If their condition/health is poor enough to incur injury it most likely isn't the horse's fault.
__________________
"Better to do little well than more poorly." Appy
Appy is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-04-2019, 08:44 PM   #3
taxicab
Registered User
 
taxicab's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,601
This one is on Turf Paradise.
They're letting horses race that are unfit.
Only they know the reasons.
The Scott Stevens excuse was laughable,he shouldn't of said anything..........nobody with any smarts would believe what he was selling.
taxicab is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-05-2019, 12:41 AM   #4
Fager Fan
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
What are you two talking about? His explanation is perfectly accurate. Those at the bottom are there for a reason. Many are unsound and they're in training with the worst trainers and help in the business to deal with (or care about) their unsoundness and vet needs.

It's a sad but accurate reflection on life at the bottom for these horses.
Fager Fan is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-05-2019, 08:38 AM   #5
JustRalph
Just another Facist
 
JustRalph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Now in Houston
Posts: 49,701
Close the track


They are down to $1500 claimers right?
__________________
LUKE 22:36
JustRalph is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-05-2019, 08:42 AM   #6
chadk66
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,414
Scott was right on. The economics of TuP doesn’t allow for high quality sound horses. Nor does it allow for them to create and maintain a high quality surface to run on. Nor does it allow high quality trainers who actually give a shit about their horses to operate there.
chadk66 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-05-2019, 10:12 AM   #7
pandy
Registered User
 
pandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA.
Posts: 7,317
Turf Paradise is an extremely fast track, probably the fastest track, which usually means that it doesn't have enough cushion.
pandy is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-05-2019, 10:26 AM   #8
bello
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan View Post
What are you two talking about? His explanation is perfectly accurate. Those at the bottom are there for a reason. Many are unsound and they're in training with the worst trainers and help in the business to deal with (or care about) their unsoundness and vet needs.

It's a sad but accurate reflection on life at the bottom for these horses.
There are some excellent trainers at the small tracks. And there are dirtbag trainers at the largest tracks. Some really good trainers cut their teeth in the minor leagues, Baffert and the Engelhardts to name a few.
bello is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-05-2019, 11:17 AM   #9
taxicab
Registered User
 
taxicab's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by bello View Post
There are some excellent trainers at the small tracks. And there are dirtbag trainers at the largest tracks. Some really good trainers cut their teeth in the minor leagues, Baffert and the Engelhardts to name a few.
+1
taxicab is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-05-2019, 11:41 AM   #10
taxicab
Registered User
 
taxicab's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadk66 View Post
Scott was right on. The economics of TuP doesn’t allow for high quality sound horses. Nor does it allow for them to create and maintain a high quality surface to run on. Nor does it allow high quality trainers who actually give a shit about their horses to operate there.
Nope.
All tracks that race horses at the bottom have cripples.
The other tracks with unsound horses don’t have the fatality rate that Turf Paradise does.
Plain and simple:
If you allow broken down horses to race,you will have a high rate of fatalities in your races.
If you don’t allow broken down horses to race....... you will have a lower rate of fatalities in your races.
Turf Paradise chooses to let broken down horses race.

Last edited by taxicab; 02-05-2019 at 11:43 AM.
taxicab is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-05-2019, 01:21 PM   #11
Clocker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRalph View Post
Close the track


They are down to $1500 claimers right?

I don't remember ever seeing anything under $3000 there.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
Clocker is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-05-2019, 01:47 PM   #12
cutchemist42
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1,114
I think ASD has a much lower rate and they are racing those same horses too.
cutchemist42 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-05-2019, 01:49 PM   #13
ReplayRandall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by pandy View Post
Turf Paradise is an extremely fast track, probably the fastest track, which usually means that it doesn't have enough cushion.
^^^^
THIS
is the main reason....Track is like concrete.
ReplayRandall is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-05-2019, 02:03 PM   #14
chadk66
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,414
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
I think ASD has a much lower rate and they are racing those same horses too.
their track is far easier on horses.
chadk66 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-05-2019, 06:29 PM   #15
GMB@BP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by pandy View Post
Turf Paradise is an extremely fast track, probably the fastest track, which usually means that it doesn't have enough cushion.
I think you have to know something about the soil to say a track is harder than another surface just because it is fast. Turf Paradise has a very unusual mix of clay and sand that you probably dont see anywhere else in America.

I would venture that the biggest issue is if you dont run the horses you might as well retire the unsound ones since you cant really justify long periods of time off for the type of returns you are going to get at that track.

I have no sympathy for TuP, the owner and management have not done any horseplayer in AZ favors over the past 20 years.

With the weather here and the demographics racing should thrive here. Hell the indians are cleaning up.
GMB@BP is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
» Current Polls
Do you use energy percentages?
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2022 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.