Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > Handicapping Software


View Poll Results: In your opinion is there now or have ever been a Turn-Key Profit Machine in Horse rac
No , of course not 67 39.88%
Yes, there is 47 27.98%
Never will be, too many variable's 54 32.14%
Voters: 168. This poll is closed

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 10 votes, 5.00 average.
Old 04-01-2012, 02:03 PM   #16
punteray
Registered User
 
punteray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bishop, CA
Posts: 249
Smile

I learned to drive in a Ford model "T" with a clutch,stick shift, and a spark advance. Then Ford did away with the spark advance BUT kept the clutch and stick shift. Many years went past and things advanced. The car salesman told me about the new "automatic shift " transmission and sold me a car with one in it. WHERE IS THE CLUTCH? WHERE IS MY BELOVED STICK SHIFT?

I am too old and set in my ways for these "new fangled" ideas from these "forward" looking people. Why can't they stick to the old ?tried and ?true methods of doing things?? DAVE, are you one of the "forward" looking people? So far, from my association with you, the answer is YES.

Keep up the good work!
punteray is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-01-2012, 02:13 PM   #17
GameTheory
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by pktruckdriver
.... called a loser and things that are not repeatable here, I am only excersising my right to voice my opinion, which I paid for , that is all.
Being a loser and exercising your right to voice your opinion are not mutually exclusive -- you can easily accomplish both. Just saying...
GameTheory is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-01-2012, 02:20 PM   #18
hencicleva
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by pktruckdriver
Wow 4 Contenders in a Race, I believe that most of the Tout Sheets give you 4 horse's to play, but tell me who plays 4 horse's every race, not me and certaintly not you

patrick
If you don't understand the difference between a contender and a bet then you are really in trouble.
hencicleva is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-01-2012, 02:39 PM   #19
windoor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 404
I am curious. Really!

Just how much is a true black box worth to you?

What would it take to convince you it really worked?

Would one need to post picks for a certain length of time to prove it's worth?

If someone actually had such a thing and posted picks for a period of time, would in not invite a sharp handicapper to be able to reverse engineer it, to see how it works?

Surely you must understand that if such a thing exists, it would have great value to the owner as a stand-alone application and the value would diminish greatly as more people became aware and used the same method. History bears this out.

Other than feeding the ego of the author, what possible reason could there be to make him/her want to give it up? I'm such a nice guy, I will give you 40 years of handicapping experience in a nice neat package, so anyone can earn a nice living at the track. Just pay the low, low price of $299.99. But wait!!! If you order this product in the next 24 hours, you will also receive "Dave's greatest exacta picks" for a full year. Absolutely free. Just pay separate shipping and handling charges

Reality is harsh. Only your mother loves you, everyone else wants something.

Regards,

Windoor
__________________
Divide by "SEVEN"
And Remember
The numbers have hinges
windoor is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-01-2012, 03:49 PM   #20
Dave Schwartz
 
Dave Schwartz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,915
Okay, enough of this nonsense.

Time for me to respond since (as Patrick seems to think) this is such good advertisement for my product.

First, I have been hearing forever that if anyone had anything that worked, they would never sell it. Therefore, if something is for sale it must have no value.

If that is the case, then why would you ever buy a single book on horse racing?


But wait! There's more! If nothing of value would ever be sold, then it follows that it certainly wouldn't be given away for free!

Again, if that is the case, why would anyone listen to what anyone else has to say about handicapping? I mean, logically, why would anyone give away handicapping ideas of value (or even little "nuggets") for free?


Let's get serious here... people DO buy books and they DO listen to other handicappers opinions. LOL - There is hardly a horseplayer to be found that is shy about sharing an opinion on how to beat the game.

Ask yourself how YOU learned about the game. If I were a gambling man (that's humor) I'd be willing to bet that most of the people here have read one or more books that have shaped their handicapping strategies and core beliefs. Most people here have, at one time or another, listened to what some well-known handicapper had to say and the CHOSE to LEARN from it.

The question always boils down to who you should listen to and who should
be put on ignore when it comes to handicapping logic. It is really that simple.

Feel free to choose to put me on your ignore list if you feel I have nothing worthwhile to say. We always have that choice.

Here was my original quote, and it is completely in context:
Quote:
While we are on this topic, the private feedback I have had after this workshop leads me to make a very provocative statement: "NewPace has evolved to the point where it may be a real turn-key profit machine."
History of NewPace
(Those of you who feel that nothing of value is ever sold or given away may choose to not bother reading any more. After all, what could you possibly gain?)

1. Before NewPace
I originally developed NewPace for me. I had been a "dynamic modeler" for years. That is, I built a model of "races like this one" on the fly. That model was reasonably tight:

Same Track
Same Surface
Same Distance
Similar Track Condition
Same Approximate Age
Similar Pace Pressure (Thank you, Randy Giles)
+/- 2 Months of the Year

I then queried the system to answer a simple question: "What factors have best indicated what a winning horse looks like in a race like this?" (Thanks go here to Tom Brohamer for his original concept: The Brohamer Model.)

This methodology worked for me for several years. (It still works, BTW.) One reason it works is that not too many people do something like this.

Over the years I tried many other approaches but, in the end, I came back to my dynamic approach every time because nothing was as consistent and self-correcting.


2. The Beginning of NewPace
When I hit upon the idea that almost every single race ultimately boiled down to a battle between early horse(s) and late horse(s) I thought I had discovered the absolute answer.

NewPace was very powerful, right from the very beginning. It allowed me to get horses that conventional pace handicapping just could not find. Many of these horses were at significantly higher than average prices, too.

At this point I had no intention of introducing NewPace to the world.


3. Intermediate NewPace
About 30,000 races into NewPace testing/tinkering, I became convinced that the approach was very good but would never take me where I wanted to go: namely, playing 90% of all races, with multiple horses per race.

It was a good methodology, but not good enough for ME. That was when I decided that I could share it with the world. (I admit to a less-than-altruistic motive here.) BTW, I shared it first with my inner-circle of HSH users - wrote some code to help them, taught them how to use it, etc. They helped me improve it.


4. NewPace for Sale
Once I announced that I was working on NewPace as a product for sale, I went to work to make the product better. I really do try to give the customer/client the best shake for his money.

It was during the pre-sale development that I made some interesting discoveries. These discoveries made NewPace more viable as a tool for ME. There were times that I seriously considered refunding everyone's money and keeping it to myself.

My logic was almost in agreement with the concept that nobody sells something good. I would say that nobody knowingly sells something good enough to make a living with for $77, $777 or even $7,777.

But it was definitely worth $77.


5. NewPace Develops
NewPace continued to develop.

In this slide from the NewPace Advanced workshop, I highlighted the issues and problems that NewPace users were facing with the original product.



These are the issues that I set out to solve for myself, and for ALL NewPace users.

NewPace Advanced addressed all of these.


My Responsibility: Honor and Integrity Matter
I have already admitted that I am not a purely altruistic person. Profit, business and common sense do play a part.

However, just so we are clear, I recognize that I DO have a reasonable level of responsibility to continue helping my customers and purchasers after the purchase.

I DO NOT owe them a lifetime of research to improve their handicapping.

I DO NOT owe them access to every discovery that I make.

I DO NOT owe them unlimited access to technical support for a book or video.

However, I DO owe them a fair shake. I owe them an opportunity to purchase, at a reasonable cost, the results of research I do.

It is safe to say that not everyone I have ever dealt with is a happy camper. Only in some perfect world could that happen. (Imagine, by John Lennon, playing in the background.)

Nevertheless, these are the ideals that I strive to achieve.


Thanks for listening. I suggest that we put this thread to bed.

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

PS: Oh, I assure you that black boxes DO exist. How do you think all those whales beat the game?

Last edited by Dave Schwartz; 04-01-2012 at 03:53 PM.
Dave Schwartz is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-01-2012, 04:29 PM   #21
pktruckdriver
Sunny Daytona Beach
 
pktruckdriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Daytona Beach
Posts: 2,302
Well done Dave

Your post was wriiten with honesty and integrity, as you, and I still think you are looking for the Holy Grail, for which you will sell it when you think you have found it and I wish you the best in finding it.

I was with you for years and you have so many things going, but your recent claim today went too far , even for you to make that claim.

I never said HSH was not a great software program, my Gawd it is a monster program, but you almost need a Degree in Computer Sceince to use it fully, yet you took me on anyway, took my money, knowing I struggled turning on my laptop, met me and still kept selling to me, then when I could not win, using your products and posted the contenders on a website for all to see, and you saw how bad they were, you banned me, saying bad things, when all I did was post what was there, what you taught me, that is what makes me so aggrevated, as I spent 1000's with you at HSH, including data too if course, (data adds up quickly), to be booted because your Turn-key system did not work, FOR ME, sad man, very sad.

Dave you are very intelligent, make a wonderful program, but are always looking for another way to get some $$, which is understandable, you are in this to make money from us actual players, we don't see you in the contest's here, or putting up your plays like so many others have done , I always wondered why, but Gapfire does, and others like RDSS play and win these contest's, to me that is putting your product out there where it needs to be, for all to see. You could do this but choose not to, why is that, Dave?


Whales , Whales Whales, Oh My, please let us fear them , they have their Black Boxes, like the Mad Bomber at MTR , the 5k bettor who plays many races , almost each night there, and often misses the board completely, once in awhile, but not always, and he makes the pay offs very nice when ever he missess, but at least he bet 1 horse not 4 horse's.


I am sorry but getting 4 horse's as your contenders, while a starting place I agree, but explain to me how this is a Turn-key Profit machine, now if you were able to narrow it down to 1-2 horse's then this would be an amazing product, especially if it had a 60% win rate or better for 2 contender's, but it does not, it gives you 4-5 horses as contender's, and well enough, like Dave said !!

Let me put this rest I had my say, I am happy now


God Bless you Dave and all NP users, may you find what you are looking for


patrick

Last edited by pktruckdriver; 04-01-2012 at 04:34 PM.
pktruckdriver is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-01-2012, 04:52 PM   #22
Dave Schwartz
 
Dave Schwartz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,915
Quote:
Dave you are very intelligent, make a wonderful program, but are always looking for another way to get some $$, which is understandable, you are in this to make money from us actual players, we don't see you in the contest's here, or putting up your plays like so many others have done , I always wondered why, but Gapfire does, and others like RDSS play and win these contest's, to me that is putting your product out there where it needs to be, for all to see. You could do this but choose not to, why is that, Dave?
Doesn't pay enough
Dave Schwartz is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-01-2012, 05:43 PM   #23
headhawg
crusty old guy
 
headhawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Snarkytown USA
Posts: 3,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by pktruckdriver
...Let me put this rest I had my say, I am happy now...
patrick
Well, we've heard that one before.

I can't believe that you are allowed to still post all of your crap here but that's not my call. You clearly have psychological problems. Do you feel inferior to other handicappers? Did you get jilted sometime in your past? Do you have Mommy issues?

If you feel the need to be heard why don't you just keep posting with the RDSS people? They have apparently welcomed you in, and they can have you and all of your baggage.
headhawg is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-01-2012, 06:20 PM   #24
PaceAdvantage
PA Steward
 
PaceAdvantage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,646
pktruckdriver isn't much of a truth teller either...so I'd take anything he posts with a grain of salt.

Let's backtrack over this little gem:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=59267

That thread was posted in June of 2009. That was almost THREE YEARS AGO.

Obviously, RDSS didn't end up being much to him if he went over to Dave and HSH...but he still claims that RDSS is where it's at.

If that's the case, why did he ever seek out Dave to begin with?

Something doesn't smell right here. Maybe headhawg is onto something. I know when Patrick addresses me on here, I'm more often than not left confused and shaking my head wondering what the heck he just said...

I can't tell whether he's being serious or busting balls half the time...scary, considering the latter would be the obvious choice...
PaceAdvantage is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-01-2012, 06:22 PM   #25
PaceAdvantage
PA Steward
 
PaceAdvantage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,646
BTW, you have no idea how many times patrick has said he's done talking about Dave...but the obsession continues.
PaceAdvantage is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-01-2012, 06:36 PM   #26
Tom
The Voice of Reason!
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,887
I think the time has come for Dave and Jonnielu to team up on a project and call it PKBlackbox.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Tom is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-01-2012, 06:38 PM   #27
headhawg
crusty old guy
 
headhawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Snarkytown USA
Posts: 3,923
Well Patrick sent me a PM and I quote, "Kiss My Ass". Well Patrick, pick a spot -- you're all ass!
headhawg is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-01-2012, 06:39 PM   #28
PaceAdvantage
PA Steward
 
PaceAdvantage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by headhawg
Well Patrick sent me a PM and I quote, "Kiss My Ass". Well Patrick, pick a spot -- you're all ass!
That's not very nice of him...might even be considered an abuse of privileges...tsk tsk tsk...
PaceAdvantage is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-01-2012, 06:45 PM   #29
PaceAdvantage
PA Steward
 
PaceAdvantage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,646
Do you realize he's been posting this shit about Dave for almost A YEAR now...and STILL CLAIMS he's being censored or that Dave has me in his back pocket and he's not allowed to speak his mind...

Freakin' hilarious this clown has become...he PMs me regularly about how he needs to post YET AGAIN about Dave...Dave Dave Dave Dave Dave...for almost a year now...

I tell him ENOUGH DUDE...you are becoming a SPAMMER at this point...the same shit OVER and OVER and OVER again....

YOU HAD YOUR SAY...MULTIPLE TIMES...stop making shit up that you don't get an opportunity to speak your mind...

Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 04-01-2012 at 06:47 PM.
PaceAdvantage is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-01-2012, 07:20 PM   #30
Dave Schwartz
 
Dave Schwartz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,915
PA,

Sure, ruin this advertisement thread that Patrick and I had all worked out.



Dave
Dave Schwartz is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply





Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
» Current Polls
Wh deserves to be the favorite? (last 4 figures)
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.